Side Case Saga or Pannier Perspiration

Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
15
Location
New Orleans
Bike
2010 Red NT 700
As comes to all of us, my side cases failed last September. Of course, the failure took place while I was in the Arkansas Ozarks, far from home. The right side pannier would not open and the left only intermittently. Fortunately when the left chose to open, that allowed seat removal and manual moving of the right side latching mechanism.

When I got back to New Orleans, other concerns kept me from promptly attacking the problem, though from time to time I thought about how to fix the cases. I read extensively on this site and considered external latches as many have done. I went so far as to buy latches, cut and tap latch base plates, and purchase thin aluminum stock for shimming the latches to conform to the case lid curvature.

But, before drilling the case base or lid, I decided to try to keep the bike stock. I removed the right hand case base, to see if it was fixable.
(Tips: take a large piece of cardboard, draw an outline of the case, and as each of the many bolts are removed from the case base, punch holes in the cardboard and put the bolts in the appropriate spot. This takes all the guess work out of re-installing the case base. Also, be mindful that in addition to the hidden screw in the tunnel connecting the two case halves, there are two tabs at the top of the tunnel which must be released to remove the right side case base.)

With the right case base removed, I removed the four screws securing the latching mechanism from the case base. The problem was immediately evident. The plastic mounts for the securing screws were crumbling. I considered trying to reconstruct those plastic mounts with JB Weld epoxy and concluded this course would be a non-starter. So, I went on line and found I could purchase new side case bases for about $120 each, postage paid. I decided for about the cost of a new set of tires, I could make the case latches like new, which hopefully would last for another five years. I ordered both the left and right. (The left case base mounts were mostly intact, but I thought I might as well get ahead of the inevitable.) Before installing the new side case bases, I beefed up the latch mechanism mounts with epoxy.

I carefully degreased and cleaned the latch mechanisms and lubed them with molybdenum in an evaporative carrier.

I then took a very close look at the catch foundations on the case lids?all four were cracked. I filled the void space between the catch foundation and the lid top with epoxy. On the bottom side of the lid catch foundation, I covered the foundation with epoxy, layered a piece of epoxy saturated cloth and covered that with another layer of epoxy. Not pretty, but hopefully strong. (Tip: Remove the catches before epoxying. I didn?t and as you?ll see below, a bit of sloppily applied epoxy welded the catches to the foundation creating a problem.)

Re-installation was a snap and the left side lid worked but requires significant closing pressure to trip the latch. However, the right side lid would not latch. I believe the replacement side case bases are very slightly wider than those on my 2010 model bike. I suspect if I could have removed the lid catches and placed shims under them, the latch would have caught. As I could not remove the catches from their foundations, I disassembled the right side case base and with a few strokes with a file on the latch mechanism, adjusted the tripping point to actuate the latch. I tested the proper operation several time before re-installing. Now everything works.

Also, with the right case base off, this was the perfect time to change the rear brake fluid, and install speed bleeders in the rear and linked, left front caliper.

For what its worth, I have always treated the side cases with kid gloves, never overstuffed them nor slammed them closed.

I will report in the future of how this repair holds up.

Best Christmas wishes

Hugh
 

tawilke46

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Nov 26, 2011
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1,252
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Baton Rouge, La
Thanks for the post Hugh. Some good information here.

I have had fairly good luck with my lids and mechanism. First thing was to clean the OEM grease from the OEM mechanism and lube with something similar to what you used. Then I also epoxied the cavities around the lid catches. Had to replace the left lid because the screw holes completely cracked open. No hope of repair. So far everything works smoothly, no problems.
I also treat the lids gently and do not overload.
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
60
Location
Essex, UK
Bike
Black NT700VA-8 ABS
Being on both the UK and US forums I notice that pannier latches are rarely mentioned on the UK forum but seem to be a regular bone of contention in the US. My bike was owned by the AA (roadside rescue not drink recovery....) and as a 'commercial' bike would not have been overly cared for I suspect and the panniers would be well loaded and regularly used on call outs but show no signs of wear (apart from a broken latch spring (the biro type) on the plastic mounts. Is there a different approach to pannier use in the US, is it the heat/sun (none here!), or is it something to do with the average size of the rider.......
 
Joined
Jan 23, 2011
Messages
1,285
Location
Arkansas
Bike
2020 Kawasaki Versys
Some of the problem originates at the factory. I had the original lids plastic latch risers crack with hardly any use, and not abused. The little use would pretty much rule out the heat issue.
I replaced the originals with big lids at 830 miles. I packed the originals on a shelf and 2 years or so later noticed the latch risers cracked (originals). The factory may be overtightening and cracking the posts or the plastic may be slightly more brittle.
The big lids are all all from across the pond. Are big lid posts in USA cracking? I think so but am not sure if it is mostly the original lids or the larger version.
I have since filled around the posts of my big lids with epoxy. Have not had any problem with them.

Brad
 

JQL

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Dec 19, 2010
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831
Location
Val de Marne, France
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2010 NT700 & 2019 FJR1300
I have been reading the latch problems as they come up as well as how the bikes are used on either side of the pond and have a theory:

In the US it seems the norm (certainly reading the forums) to use the side stand rather than the centre stand. On the European side of the pond the use of the centre stand seems more common. I have noticed that the panniers don't latch very well (sometimes, when the panniers are over half full, if at all) when the bike is on the side stand whereas, on the centre stand, they latch correctly.

I now never open and close the panniers when the bike is on the side stand.
 
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
133
Location
Northern Virginia
Hugh, I also decided to install new inner saddlebag assemblies to retain the stock pannier latch set-up. Like you, I paid about $120 a side including shipping. And like you, I applied epoxy around the plastic "towers" that the catch mechanisms screw into in hopes that they will resist cracking. I described my experience at the end of a separate thread on the pannier issue.

Here are a couple of additional observations for anyone wanting to go this route:

If I did it again I would try fitting and epoxying lengths of threaded rod into the "towers," converting them from using self-tapping screws to using nuts. I think this would be a stronger fix than just applying epox to the outside of the towers. (Again, thanks to Dirtflier for this fix.)

Second, whatever fix you use, it is critical to not alter the height of the towers. Any change in the position that the catch plate assemblies sit on the towers will upset the operation of the latches. Its worth trying the latch assemblies with the lids before you reinstall the assemblies on the bike to make sure the latches "catch" and "release" properly. Otherwise you may have to disassemble everything to fix the positioning.

Finally, note that three of the four mounting holes on the catch assemblies are actually ovals, not round holes. I believe the single round hole is intended to position the catch plates correctly, and the plastic towers are intended to "wiggle" a bit under the three oval holes. This wiggle should help reduce strain on the towers. Consequently, I think you want to avoid over-tightening the screws on these holes; there should be a bit of wiggle in the towers under the three oval mounts. (This is hard to describe in words but is clear once you actually look at the parts.)
 
OP
OP
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
15
Location
New Orleans
Bike
2010 Red NT 700
Hi Chris

I had read your earlier helpful post before I started this surgery. And I agree about being careful not to alter the side case base tower heights, as that will make latching difficult or impossible. Also, you are right about testing the operation with the lid installed on the Case base before reassembly.

However I do question your views regarding the three oval hole mounts. When the latch mechanism is correctly installed, the latch mechanism sits down on the tower supports. The single round securing hole effectively precludes any fore and aft movement with the other holes. Leaving them a bit loose puts all the securing strain on the single round securing hole and tower.

My guess regarding failure, is the securing strain on the tower mounts create a couple because the holding force vectors on the lid catches do not act in line with the securing vectors on the tower mounts. My lid foundations all cracked (failed) on the compression side of that couple. I did not note if there was a similar failure pattern on the towers.

FWIW, I always use the center stand, I never slam the lids and I never over stuffed the cases. I believe case design is poorly conceived and needlessly complicated. Its the only real blemish on an otherwise remarkable motorcycle.

Best Christmas wishes to all.

Hugh
 

DirtFlier

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Dec 13, 2010
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Troy, OH
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2010 Silver NT700V/ABS
In ref to the four screws holding the latching mechanism, if you retain the original screws and bolster the towers you may still face the same problem just a little further down the road. Those screws have a tapered shank so screwing them into the plastic tower creates a spreading force.

I originally thought of using machine screws and tapping the towers to avoid that spreading force but decided the threads wouldn't last long in the brittle plastic, so came up with the idea of using 5 mm all-thread rod. To prepare the tower, I first drill deep into it then thread with a 5 mm tap, and finally use epoxy to secure the correct length 5 mm rod in place. I drill and tape the entire depth of the tower so unlike the original screws, I'm not relying on the last 10-12 mm of plastic to secure a tapered screw. Now tightening the nut on the 5 mm rod tries to pull on the entire length of the tower, and with no spreading action that splits the plastic.

To do this correctly, you need at least two towers (on each side) that are still the original height. They can be split but you have to be able to duplicate the correct height to have the latch work correctly.
 
Joined
Mar 2, 2016
Messages
114
Location
Silicon Valley
I removed the four screws securing the latching mechanism from the case base. The problem was immediately evident. The plastic mounts for the securing screws were crumbling. I considered trying to reconstruct those plastic mounts with JB Weld epoxy and concluded this course would be a non-starter

I rode with the Vintage Japanese Motorcycle Club to Death Valley last weekend. They rode one very bad road at a high rate of speed, which caused various parts of their bikes to rattle off and be left behind. When I arrived at the motel, I noticed it very difficult to get the left lid to catch. When I got home, I noted I could push in on the metal catch assembly with a screw driver. It should have been rigid. Taking it apart, I noted all four plastic posts in the saddlebag body, which accept the 12mm long thread-tapping screws which secure the latch mechanism to the bag body, had cracked at the ends of the screws. Not only cracked, but the broken off pieces, which still had the screws threaded into them, had cracks running the length of the threads. First thought was it would take a miracle with JB Weld to solve this, and it would always be of questionable durability, if it worked at all. Then, I noticed the remaining posts were not only intact, but each post had an additional hole depth of between 13mm - 31mm ... virgin, un-tapped depth. Why not use a suitable epoxy (or baking soda & cyanoacrylate wonder fix) to reconstruct the shattered posts, and reattach them to the sound posts, then source plastic thread-tapping screws of additional length to utilize the entire depth of the hole? Finally, the posts only broke because the mass of the heavy metal latch mechanism assembly batters up and down with each bump in a rough road, so thinking some support between the underneath side of the latch mechanism and the top of the inside saddlebag. Thinking maybe some of that aerosol expanding foam used to sealing air leaks around large gaps. This would spread out the load across a very large area instead of just four plastic posts.

I am interested in hearing how others have repaired these posts. Also, if the posts on my right bag are still good, i think it would be wise to put longer screws in those too. Wonder why Honda used short 12mm screws in holes 40mm deep. Silly.
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2015
Messages
180
Location
Mechanicsburg, Pa. USA
Bike
2010 NT700V
I replied to other posts on this issue. I bought my 2010 NT in November of 2015 and after joining this forum I looked at my latches and found cracks on most of the posts. I decided to go the route of others on this forum and installed locking draw latches on the outside eliminating the entire OEM latch system. I also bought a set of the large lids and installed the latches on them also so I can use either set of lids.

I attached the latches I bought on eBay to the bike with aluminum pop rivets. I cut 1" X 2" pieces of stainless plate, (about 1/16"thick) drilled and formed them to fit the contour of the inside of the tail section of the bike for reinforcement for the rivets. Skinny fingers help when reaching under the tail section of the bike to install the plates. Placement is critical, so you have to take time to align the latches for a snug fit. I ordered the latches all keyed alike. I feel this is a fix that will last. Here is the link to the latches on eBay, I contacted the seller to insure they are keyed alike.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Draw-Latch-Keyed-Southco-V7-Series-316-Stainless-Steel-Electro-Polished-/401118540065?hash=item5d64873121:g:CsQAAOSwxYxUuuqC

IMG_2652.jpg
IMG_2650.jpg
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 20, 2015
Messages
115
Location
Michigan
Bike
2013 Harley Police bike
Bear bait, Did you use one or 2 latches per side?
Any pics?
Never mind, I should have read your post to the end.
 
Last edited:

DirtFlier

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Dec 13, 2010
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Troy, OH
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2010 Silver NT700V/ABS
[...what methods do you use to drill and tap in such a confined, recessed area?...]

The drilling is quite easy and only requires putting masking tape on the drill bit to act as a visual stop point but tapping was a real bear because you have to swing a handle either back & forth or round & round. I first tried using 1/4" drive socket and long extension but I found it was too wobbly so I ended up making a long, t-handle tool with the 5 mm tap epoxy'd into the shank. No more wobbles!

5 mm tap.jpg

Note: the full size, Channel Lock pliers are only in the photo for size reference.
 
Joined
Mar 2, 2016
Messages
114
Location
Silicon Valley
My hang-up is in finding an at least six inch long drill bit in 4.2 mm, 11/64", or #18 diameter, all of which would be satisfactory for a 5 mm tap. Can't find the long drill bits locally, or online. I have completed reinforcing all the "fins" around each post with all-thread rod embedded in JB Weld Plastic Bonder. Each post is now essentially a 3/4" diameter solid mass of epoxy and metal. I am ready to tap, but I need a long drill bit in the proper size for the 5 mm tap.
 
Joined
Mar 2, 2016
Messages
114
Location
Silicon Valley
The 5 mm tap instructs to use an 11/64" drill. The closest size I can find in at least six inch length is 3/16" (12/64"). Does anybody know if that extra 1/16" would be OK when tapping, or would the thread be too loose? I'm going to epoxy the threaded rod in anyway.
 

Phil Tarman

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Greeley, CO
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2010 Silver NT700VA (ABS)
Dave, if you edit a post, all you do to save it is to send it. "Alt" + "S" gets it.
 
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