Throttle Position Sensor TPS Part Number

dnktng · Jan 24, 2016

XmarkF said:
FYI Throttle Position Sensor (TPS).
Honda call it integrated. I have just discovered why.. Honda cycle parts have MEW part numbers. The TPS is a JT7H a quick ebay search will tell you this is a TPS for a 03-05 Honda Accord Element 2.4L and some others. This not a Honda motorcycle part.
I have just discovered this after having my NT off the road for almost a year now. Because I refuse to pay 10% of the bike price for an entire throttle body. The list prices I have seen (AU$) 1100-1600+ Just ordered the sensor for $28.05 AUD $18.96 USD.(delivered) I'm sorry guys and gals. When this thing is running again it is GONE! no more Hondas for me.
I'm not sure what is next but the 2016 FJR is looking very good.

XmarkF, I'm sorry for your grief with the NT. There are quite a few here that have gone through the shock and disbelief that a TPS had to be bought with an entire throttle body for the NT. The is the first I've read of a part number for the TPS at nt-owners.org or at DeauvilleUK.org. Again, sorry for your grief but having that part number will be a huge good deal for someone, and thank you for posting it.

I have put in a little effort researching for a TPS part number with no luck in the past. When XmarkF posted the above with JT7H as the part number I was skeptical, but also know that a car TPS and motorcycle TPS could certainly be interchangeable. I found a high resolution ebay ad selling a NT700V Throttle Body and found an angle that showed the TPS. There it is, JT7H and the white paint markers are intact, so it is the original TPS.

XmarfF, If you could, please post anything else you that may be helpful is setting the replaced TPS on the throttle body. Of coarse the service manual is of no use because it expects everyone to replace the entire throttle body.

There are several JT7H TPS's on ebay for under $20, AS IT SHOULD BE!!

Thanks again XmarkF.

mikesim · Jan 24, 2016

I'm not so sure that JT7H a "complete" part number. The OP said that Honda cycle parts have "MEW" part numbers, that is incorrect. The MEW designation means that the part was originally used on an NT700. Each Honda product, be it a car, motorcycle, etc has a three character designator which specifies it's original usage. The original usage designator however does not mean that the part usage is confined "only" to the original application It may be used in any Honda product. A valid Honda part number looks something like this.... XXXXX - AAA - NNNN. Where XXXXX is the part ID number, the AAA is the origin designator and NNNN is the version or supercession number. Hardware, nuts, bolts, washers and bulbs do not follow this convention.

That being said, it would be great if the OP has found a true replacement for the TPS! We can only hope that he replies back in the affirmative.

Mike

dnktng · Jan 24, 2016

mikesim said:
I'm not so sure that JT7H a "complete" part number.

Mike, I agree, the JT7H is not a Honda part number. You're right, Honda part numbers alway includes a 3 digit model code. MEW is the model code for the NT700v.

But it may be a manufacturers part number, complete or incomplete, that Kiehen buys and installs into the NT's throttle bodies, then sells the entire throttle body assembly to Honda, where Honda slaps their Honda part number on and sells it for $580-$840.

It would nice to know if:
1. the JT7H part physically fits
2. Does it have the correct electrical connector and adequate wiring length
3. what voltage to adjust the idle voltage setting to. I suspect .45vdc or .50vdc since a low voltage TPS MIL is set to .3vdc. But that a guess since there isn't a procedure for it in the service manual.

Yes, a $20 part would be nice.

mikesim · Jan 24, 2016

dnktng said:
Mike, I agree, the JT7H is not a Honda part number. You're right, Honda part numbers alway includes a 3 digit model code. MEW is the model code for the NT700v.

But it may be a manufacturers part number, complete or incomplete, that Kiehen buys and installs into the NT's throttle bodies, then sells the entire throttle body assembly to Honda, where Honda slaps their Honda part number on and sells it for $580-$840.

It would nice to know if:
1. the JT7H part physically fits
2. Does it have the correct electrical connector and adequate wiring length
3. what voltage to adjust the idle voltage setting to. I suspect .45vdc or .50vdc since a low voltage TPS MIL is set to .3vdc. But that a guess since there isn't a procedure for it in the service manual.

Yes, a $20 part would be nice.

Yup! It always bothered me that the TPS was not serviced separately. I hope the OP has found an economical solution.

Mike

XmarkF · Jan 24, 2016

The seller says
Manufacturer Part Number:FD01005
Interchange Part Number:TPS-H112
Other Part Number:JT7H20410
If helps anyone.
Unfortunately the part is coming via slow boat from China.
As for calibration. If someone would be kind enough to pull the cable from their ECU and measure the resistance at that end (no need to go to the sensor)
sensor resistance - across the sensor
full closed
and full open.
We will then have a close-enough - cal map

seagrass · Jan 25, 2016

XmarkF I am in Sydney Australia so let me know if I can be of any help to you in solving your problem.

My NT is not in use every day so if you need to borrow parts to trouble shoot that is even a possibility.

Seagrass

Macka · Jan 25, 2016

For EFI, resistances are of lesser importance. The ECU looks at voltages only, not resistances.
As long as you have a signal voltage of 0.4 volts - 0.5 volts with a closed throttle you will be OK. It is the closed/part throttle end that is important.
All TPS sensors should return full feed voltage (approx 5 volts) at full throttle. If not, check that you are actually getting full throttle.
If it is a little low (say 4.5-4.9 volts) you will never know the difference. It will be OK as the difference at full throttle will only be a few milliseconds difference in injector pulse.
It should be measured at the ECU connector harness using the back probe method with the ignition on at terminal B31 which is the Red/Yellow wire in the Grey connector block.
By using the back-probe method at the ECU you are getting the real world figures which will include any drop caused by harness connections etc.
It the voltages are correct at the ECU all is well. If not, you have excessve resistance somewhere between the TPS and the ECU.

Macka

mikesim · Jan 25, 2016

XmarkF said:
The seller says
Manufacturer Part Number:FD01005
Interchange Part Number:TPS-H112
Other Part Number:JT7H20410
If helps anyone.
Unfortunately the part is coming via slow boat from China.
As for calibration. If someone would be kind enough to pull the cable from their ECU and measure the resistance at that end (no need to go to the sensor)
sensor resistance - across the sensor
full closed
and full open.
We will then have a close-enough - cal map

According to your photo, your TPS is also marked with the number "81127.According to my limited research, this is likely the Keihin calibration number. Did you use this number in your cross-reference efforts as well?

Mike

XmarkF · Jan 25, 2016

I thank you very much, but I am sure it will not come to that.
As for absolute voltages this may be the case but my experiences with microcontrollers and analogue tells me that it is a voltage divider and works as a ratio. One pin is GND another Vmax(5V) the third (center?) is the wiper. If I were to implement this type of system I would start a at say 5% so If I read 0% I could tell there is a fault (no sensor) also if I make max 95%, if I read a greater It is also fault (short circuit). As the TPS is just a variable resistor its actual value is not critical provided it is not so low that there are current issues GND to V+, just guessing 10K ish. and not so high that it looks open circuit.
But if it compares sensor voltages against a fixed voltage reference I am barking up the wrong tree. Which to me seems a bad idea as wires age and connectors contacts develop resistance over time. We would be rewiring every 2 years.
That is why I would like to know the resistance across the sensor. So I can calculate the operating window as percentages.
I understand that some things are written as voltages as this is easy to measure on a running system. As I, and others, in the same predicament do not have means to tap into the wires and adjust the sensor while it is running, Resistance and a calculator, seems, by far the easier method.
Please I am not an electrical engineer nor a auto-electrician if I have this totally screwed up set me straight now before I do some damage.

Cheers all.

dnktng · Jan 25, 2016

XmarkF said:
One pin is GND another Vmax(5V) the third (center?) is the wiper. If I were to implement this type of system I would start a at say 5% so If I read 0% I could tell there is a fault (no sensor) also if I make max 95%, if I read a greater It is also fault (short circuit).

From the Service Manual: "TP sensor circuit low voltage (less than 0.3V)" and "TP sensor circuit high voltage (more than 4.93V)" These are the voltages (or close to it) that the ECM senses from the the TPS and gives a MIL, and I believe changes to the fail-safe pre-programmed map. So at idle the TPS should be sending at least .3vdc or a MIL will occur.

A TPS resistance check in the service manual from ground to the wiper spec is .5 to 1.5kohms with the throttle shut/idle.

Here is a great link about Honda PGM-FI. Get a copy before it disappears. There is some good info about TPS's in Honda FI motorcycles. It is generic, but has good info. It looks like idle is set to .5vdc and WOT could be up to 4.8vdc.

FYI, here is a video showing how to set a Honda motorcycle TPS. He states that it is on a model that doesn't sell the TPS separate from the throttle body. Sound familiar, right? The CBR600RR uses the same JT7H TPS as the NT700V.
[video=youtube;aiBdnYcgqcc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiBdnYcgqcc[/video]

XmarkF · Jan 25, 2016

Pure gold

My next born will have your name.

Mark

bicyclist · Feb 5, 2016

Hey Mark, did the slow boat from China arrive with your TPS? It would be interesting to put an ohm meter on the connector to read the bad one while you operate the throttle. It would give an indication whether the TPS has a bad spot or if the whole thing is bad. I wonder whether there's any way to get some cleaner into the thing.

I'm sure we'd all like to know what a good one measures. It's too cold to go out and measure mine at the moment, but I think that it's something I should do sometime to have the info on hand.

XmarkF · Feb 6, 2016

In my enthusiasm I have removed the sensor and now i have thrown a cover over the throttle body so nothing gets in. I am doing some renovations so lots of sawdust, fibre cement sheet dust etc. none of which does the cylinders any good.
I will grab the sensor now and see what the Fluke has to say (pause typing ....) 6K across, 434R - 6K. and back Ooo not good, now 320R yep there is defiantly a problem with that puppy. Interestingly it is spring loaded, I guess that is to removed any play(slop) in the shaft that drives it.

No sign of the new one yet. I don't expect it for a while as it is Chinese new year, which a is full week. I have been told by a Chinese friend they also have the problem that a lot of people don't return to work in the new year, instead seek a change of fortune and job. Which leaves a lot businesses in a tough position, China post ends up with a mountain of mail and not enough staff.

I hope to tap in some wires this week, so I can make the adjustments when the new one finally arrives. I have some connectors left over from when I added some LED lights down on the front forks/guard. I have not been able to put my hands on them. I hope that they are 3 pin, I just can't remember... Not to worry I only need +5 and the return (wiper). Before I connect the TPS I will make sure the (-) ground is the same a chassis ground. If I can't find the connectors I will just do it old school with tacked on wires which I'll cut off after and tape them up.

I will post the progress, when I have some.
Cheers all

bicyclist · Feb 6, 2016

Thanks for the info.

Good luck, hope the part comes soon. At least you're not tempted to ride instead of getting the reno work done. :doh1:

mikesim · Feb 6, 2016

XmarkF said:
In my enthusiasm I have removed the sensor and now i have thrown a cover over the throttle body so nothing gets in. I am doing some renovations so lots of sawdust, fibre cement sheet dust etc. none of which does the cylinders any good.
I will grab the sensor now and see what the Fluke has to say (pause typing ....) 6K across, 434R - 6K. and back Ooo not good, now 320R yep there is defiantly a problem with that puppy. Interestingly it is spring loaded, I guess that is to removed any play(slop) in the shaft that drives it.

No sign of the new one yet. I don't expect it for a while as it is Chinese new year, which a is full week. I have been told by a Chinese friend they also have the problem that a lot of people don't return to work in the new year, instead seek a change of fortune and job. Which leaves a lot businesses in a tough position, China post ends up with a mountain of mail and not enough staff.

I hope to tap in some wires this week, so I can make the adjustments when the new one finally arrives. I have some connectors left over from when I added some LED lights down on the front forks/guard. I have not been able to put my hands on them. I hope that they are 3 pin, I just can't remember... Not to worry I only need +5 and the return (wiper). Before I connect the TPS I will make sure the (-) ground is the same a chassis ground. If I can't find the connectors I will just do it old school with tacked on wires which I'll cut off after and tape them up.

I will post the progress, when I have some.
Cheers all

Be sure to follow up with your findings... could be a huge money saver.

Mike

XmarkF · Apr 6, 2016

Hi all you great, and patient, NTers GOOD NEWS!!!
The sensor I had ordered arrived and is no good.
The slot is 90deg out. Need / but it is \. I did try cutting a slot the other way with a Dremel like tool, but butchered it bad.
I thought this is it I will just have to give the credit card a beating and order the throttle body.
So I go to see the good folks at Top Gun motorcycles. (lots of eye candy there) and explained my dilemma to the spare parts guy. While he is looking it up on the system, his side kick wanders away and comes back with a plastic bag and says this a TPS for a Yamaha is it anything like this. O MY YES. So not to get to overconfident I said I will take a photo and compare it to the original (I forgot which way the slot went).
Got home, took a look, BINGO. Ok so now I feel hopeful. I go back with original to make sure they turn in the same direction etc. Yes!
So $160. and a couple of hours later, she is up and running. I have only taken it out to top up the air in the doughnuts and get some fresh go-go juice. All seem good so far.

Q: What is the number?
A:Yamaha part 1SL-85885-00

DirtFlier · Apr 6, 2016

On the Honda car models/years mentioned in the lead-in post, the TPS is sold as a unit with a new throttle body - similar to the NT - and not available separately from American Honda. Out of curiosity, I punched "throttle position sensor for '05 Accord" into Google search and it came up with several places that sell the TPS as a separate part for under $50 so there's a 2nd avenue if someone needs one. Obviously the potential market for a Honda car TPS is about 1000x larger than for a motorcycle so it becomes a worthwhile venture.

The Yamaha P/N is a real find (thanks XmarkF!) and I'd venture a guess that it would be cheaper in the US vs Australia because of their taxes? If someone has a Yamaha connection, please let us know the MSRP here.

Warren · Apr 6, 2016

Yamaha 1SL-85885-00-00 is $95.29 from Partzilla. It is used on Yamaha YZ250's and YZ450's

hk9151 · Apr 11, 2016

DirtFlier said:
On the Honda car models/years mentioned in the lead-in post, the TPS is sold as a unit with a new throttle body - similar to the NT - and not available separately from American Honda. Out of curiosity, I punched "throttle position sensor for '05 Accord" into Google search and it came up with several places that sell the TPS as a separate part for under $50 so there's a 2nd avenue if someone needs one. Obviously the potential market for a Honda car TPS is about 1000x larger than for a motorcycle so it becomes a worthwhile venture.

The Yamaha P/N is a real find (thanks XmarkF!) and I'd venture a guess that it would be cheaper in the US vs Australia because of their taxes? If someone has a Yamaha connection, please let us know the MSRP here.

I tried the 05 Honda Accord TPS today, it does not fit. It is not "clocked" quite enough. It holds the throttle open just a bit. Looks like I will try the Yamaha part. My NT and my Dads NT have been down for a year.

XmarkF · Apr 11, 2016

yes I was caught out with that. I did try to cut the slot the other way but destroyed it in the process. I have the Yam. part fitted and running I have not seen any adverse behaviour from using it. I may not have it in exactly the right spot, but from what a friend tells me ( he works on performance car modifications) the normally ECUs are reset when the power is removed and they relearn the sensor settings when run again. So if it close to correct, within the non-error range all should be good. I can't compare fuel consumption as the old one may have been borderline for quite some time. Acceleration was a bit soft before. It seems a little pokier now.