Stayin Safe Advanced Rider Training

http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php?topic=65913.new;topicseen#new

This was posted on the Concours Owners Group by a riding buddy about the on road two day training we completed on May 14 and 15. Dan Lux on the NT forum also took this training.

I highly recommend everyone give this training a look, it's money well spent!

Dan please chime in with your thoughts.

BB

I read Steve's post on the COG forum and I concur with just about everything he said. It was expensive, but money well spent!

Just out of curiosity, how expensive was it? I considered riding east to take it, but didn't have the time to make the trip. And if I'd taken the trip, I wouldn't have had the moolah to do some other things I've planned.

Does he ever teach the course anywhere in the west?

Phil,

Here's the link to their website. http://www.stayinsafe.com/

Most tours are in the east, but there is a Southern California tour.

Thanks, Dan. I guess it would be almost as easy to go to West Virginia or somewhere back east as to go to Ojai. The difference in distance is only about 300 miles between going to Ojai or Morgantown.

I have mixed emotions about this kind of thing. I am not saying its a bad thing to spend $400-500 a day for instruction, especially if its good instruction and you can retain and use the info to be a better rider......
What I am saying is that I personally am not a very good motorcycle rider...in fact, I am more like a squid. But, I am highly successful motorcycle rider. And it is much better to be successful than good. The last time
I fell with more than 2 mph forward velocity was in the 1970s. I have never hit a car or pedestrian or mammal. I did hit a pheasant which did stay in my lap. I am sure there are many here that know exactly what line
to take through a corner, who know how to brake with the rear brake and turn slowly and tight. And that is fine. At my age and with my sense of balance and decreasing facalties, it is much better to concentrate on the basics
of safe riding, not good riding.
Ride like you are invisible
Ride well within your capabilites envelope.
Keep your wits about you. Its all about situational awareness.
Leave yourself an OUT.
Do you really want to ride at night? Really? That is the mistake Grodskey made, IIRC....
Leave extensive night riding to those under 60 who heal faster than we old folks.
Frosty and I personally know a Motorcycle Saftey Foundation instructor who I am sure is a very good rider. He also spent weeks in the hospital. The first time, it was a 100 mph wheelie that went bad.
Its that kind of judgement that gets you hurt. Not how well you can navigate a corner....or do a wheelie

Its a fine thing to know exactly how to brake your bike down from speed as quick as you can, be it an ABS bike like my FJR or a Non-ABS bike like my NT. But its much better to not get into situations as much as
possible that require that maneuver. Knowing what line to take through a corner is fine. But it is better to know how to safely take the corner in the current situation.
Never stop riding the bike.
Oh, and if you want to be a better rider and driver, become a pilot. Ask Frosty and Phil.....

Chris, I am certaintly glad you haven't had any major accidents on the bike. I've been riding for for 40+ years and have owned 14 motorcycles. The Stayin Safe Advanced Rider Training course is more than safe riding practices. You actually learn where to be on the road in every situation, cornering, braking, slow speed maneuvering, looking ahead, insuring you can stop within your line of site, etc.

Of the six rider, the youngest rider in the course was 54, the oldest 78. All have been riding for many years, and each quoted how much they learned. The courses are held on great twisty roads away from crowed highways. The constant communication directly into your helmet from the instructors is a class room on the road. One instructor for every three riders. You both follow and lead the instructors, so you get constant feedback while riding.

I went down a year ago on my Concours C14, I truly believe I would not have crashed if I had used what I've learned at Stayin Safe. It should be noted that Grodsky died because he hit a deer. I do agree it is a bad idea to ride after dark. The course is not only training, the instructors are with you all day, both days even at meals. So, the class continues into the evening with questions and opinions talked about during, before, and after dinner. If you are concerned about cost, it includes some great meals, one night lodging, and even a beverage at the end of day one.

So, I hope all would look at the website and if you have any concerns, questions, you can call and talk to Eric Trow personally. He and his instructors are very personable and the most enthusiastic riders I have met. You can only learn so much in a parking lot. BB

Some of my fellow bicycling instructors and I like to say "It is best to use your superior judgement to avoid requiring your superior skill."
(unstated: you should learn both)

OvO said:

Some of my fellow bicycling instructors and I like to say "It is best to use your superior judgement to avoid requiring your superior skill."
(unstated: you should learn both)

Click to expand...

Nice, something to live and ride by. Thanks, BB

[video]https://youtu.be/qFXPkPuGmCU[/video]

Finding your limits in a controlled environment seems like a bargain to me.

OvO said:

Some of my fellow bicycling instructors and I like to say "It is best to use your superior judgement to avoid requiring your superior skill."
(unstated: you should learn both)

Click to expand...

This quote is used by every flight instructor/check pilot I ever met.
One more thought, Disproportionate speeds need to be approached with this axiom, it has a direct correlation.

karl said:

[video]https://youtu.be/qFXPkPuGmCU[/video]

Finding your limits in a controlled environment seems like a bargain to me.

Click to expand...

There is a major difference between a track day and on-road training. Track does help you find your limits and cornering in a controlled environment, you may need to know your limits in an emergency situation. Track training teaches apex cornering, Stayin Safe teaches being in the proper lane position going into a corner for the best line of site and looking down the road as far as you can see. Going into a right hand turn, you are to be in the left auto tire track so you can see what is ahead and vehicles coming toward you. In a right hand turn there are many times an oncoming car, vehicle with a trailer, or motorcycle, on or crossing the double center line. Going into a left hand turn, you are to be in the right auto tire track so you can see what is ahead. Also riding the apex in a left turn, many times your upper body is over the center line.

Approaching a hill crest you should be in the center of the lane, and decrease your speed so you can react to what is on the other side of the crest. So, using proper lane position means using your entire lane, not riding in a staggered formation and staying at least 2 seconds behind the bike in front of you. Save the staggered formation for interstates. Motorcycles have the use of the entire lane where an auto doesn't, so why not use it.

It is constantly stressed in Stayin Safe to be looking ahead, using tree lines, buildings, etc. to help define the road ahead. Telephone poles are not always a good practice to follow, they could head off into a field. I now even use the ahead vision while driving my car. Other things you learn at Stayin Safe, different cornering techniques, counter steering, body steering, braking, and cam braking. Also covered, low speed maneuvering, and stopping and starting out on hills to name a few.

This is what I learned, I truly hope this helps others. It gives you something to think about. BB

The flavor of Coyote Chis's comments are essentially what this course was all about. This was not a track day. It wasn't about finding your limits.
It was all about safety.

The lines into the corners weren't about the fastest line, but the safest line. What line enabled you to see farthest around the corner? What line enables you to be seen the best? Admittedly the lines did enable you to ride faster, but safer too.

Managing speed into the corners, "Dan slow down into the corners." I was reprimanded (too strong a word) several times about my entry speed. Manage you speed into the corner, roll on the throttle on the way out. As they say - slow in, out with a grin. Manage your speed on blind hill crests. Always be able to stop within the distance you can see.

Heads up. Use peripheral vision to maintain your lane position so you can keep you head up to read the lay of the land. Eric and Randy provided lots of guidance on how look ahead and anticipate where the roads is going long before you get there. Eliminate surprises, those gotcha moments. In the two weeks since the ride I on several occasions predicted a dangerous situation before it happened. I watched it develop just as I thought it might happen. Trouble averted.

Lane position. I can't ride now without "playing the motorcycle safety game". It's like I still have Eric or Randy talking to me through the headset. "Check your six" i.e. use your mirrors. See that wear on the center line on the sharp right hand curve, on coming traffic cuts across the center line. Why does that turn have 8 signs indicating a left hand turn? Because it's a dangerous curve with a lot of accidents. And so on and so on.

Slow speed parking lot riding with a 660 pound, top heavy bike. It was a revelation. My fear is gone!

There was technical information about braking and shifting. Also combined use of the throttle and brakes in curves. Starting on hills.

However it was all about being a successful rider by being a better rider. I highly recommend this program to anyone who wants to be a safer rider.

The tools in my box are a variety, The more training you take the better rider you should be. Together they should make us safer. Enjoy your ride.

VZSHADOW, nice write up, you are better with words than me. Great meeting you at Stayin Safe, let's get together for a ride soon. BB