Radial/bias ply mix

lynnbpa

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As I'm getting to check out my recently purchased sight-unseen NT, one of the things I've discovered is there's a radial tire (Battleax BT023) on the front, decent tread remaining, and a near-new to new bias ply tire (Shinko AR 741, nubs still showing) on the rear. I searched the forums and found some discussion of mixing a bias ply and a radial, dating back to 2011. Trend seemed to be that those who'd tried it in this same arrangement (radial on front, bias ply on rear) had no problems. I've only put about 25 miles on the bike so far, and haven't noticed any problem, but since all my previous riding experience (~1968-2005) was on bias ply tires, I'm wondering if anyone has any further, more recent experience, positive or negative, with mixed tire types?

Thanks!

Lynn B.
 

Warren

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Most likely you will not experience any problems. I am not aware however of anyone that has any general experience using the Shinko AR741 tire on the NT as far as wear and handling are concerned. There are much better tires that you can put on the NT over both the BT023 and the Shinko.
 

Phil Tarman

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I can't imagine the Shinko being much worse than the BT023. I did run a mix of radials and bias-ply tires on my first '99 Concours and never had any problems. After that I ran Goldwing 1500-sized bias-ply tires exclusively and they were way better than the OEM Dunflop radials for the Connie
 
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lynnbpa

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So, is there a concensus on what's the best tire for "average riding conditions" on the NT?

Thanks!

Lynn B.
 

Phil Tarman

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I have been mostly happy with Michelin PR4s. I had one rear that only gave me 8K miles, but the two before that had gone 17K and 14K. The ones I have now have only done 3K miles in the last year.
 
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+1 on the PR4s. I tried a set of Pirelli Angel GTs on my first NT. They were much better than the stock Bridgestones, but the Michelin PR4s on my current NT are better still imho.

I also run the PR4s on the Triumph - I got 16000 miles out of the first set and have 12000 on the current set with plenty of life left on them.

Cheers,
 

karl

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Tires are a critical part of your bikes safety. How do we define "good or better" better grip, longer life? Or is one more important than the other to you. The hyper-sport tires the bike came with stick like crazy but don't last very long. Personally I would stick to the original construction type, Radial and run a matched set. Had a brand new set of Bridgestone T30's on my NT and at about 7K miles they where showing a few stitches of cord every few inches. The weather was predominantly wet and I never felt a want for grip in any weather condition. It was my good fortune to never have to exercise the full emergency capability of the tires. The bike felt planted in everything from gully washer rain to some light snow in a pass in Oregon.

My personal goal is to keep riding the bike as long as I can. Having had more repairs done to my body than I care for, avoiding any more is worth something to me. Tires are the #1 improvement in vehicle safety. A new matched set are worth the expense to me. Way cheaper than a crash. Will you crash with that bias ply on the back? Probably not. Why take a chance, give yourself all the margin you can get.

The Honda dealer I bought my bike from wants $300. to mount a tire I buy from him in back. His tires start at around $300. Honda dealer in WA wanted me to wait a week for a new rear tire... Iron Pony in Columbus, OH charged me $244. for a tire installed. Yes they are a Honda dealer... and other Brands as well. Shop around don't be afraid of independent shops. Enjoy your ride and be safe.
 
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With all the money spent on R&D at Honda, it doesn't make logical sense to re-engineer with a mix of tire construction types. In my mind, tires are the cheapest "insurance" one can buy. I have PR4's on my NT and they make me feel very confident wet or dry.
 

Phil Tarman

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I don't think Honda spent a whole lot of R&D money on the NT (or any of its predecessor bikes). I'm pretty sure the Hawk 650 is a linear predecessor to the NT650 and there's not a whole bunch of difference in the NT650 and NT700 suspension or geometry. I'm willing to bet that the Hawk was delivered with bias-ply tires.

So I don't think mounting a bias-ply tire on the bike is re-engineering anything, although I agree that, in general, radials are an improvement on bias-plies. (Read my earlier post in this thread about using bias-ply tires on C10 Concours vs using OEM radials. The Dunlop K700/K701 radial combo that came on the C10 were AWFUL tires. The Connie had tire sizes that weren't available in many of the more modern radials, but matched the sizes of the Goldwing 1500 tires (all bias-ply, I think).

I ran one mixed set of tires on the my NT. I put a radial Metzler ME-880 on the front and a bias ME-880 on the back (Metzler didn't make a radial in the 150/70X17 size). The front lasted about 17K miles and the rear lasted about 15K miles. The bike didn't have any handling peculiarities with a mixed radial/bias combo. But, I didn't like the feel as well as the Michelin PR3s that replaced the Metzlers, or the PR4s that replaced the PR3s.

That's my opinion. All of you tire/suspension engineers are fully entitled to yours. I'm also guessing that, on the NT, most of us and most of our bikes don't get close to the capability of our tires. Just sayin'...
 
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Not related to a Radial/Bias mix but FWIW, I have recently changed back from PR4s to a Pilot Activ front and a 160/70 Commander 2 rear.
The PR4s never gave me a confident feel except for straight line braking which was Awesome, even on the wet!
I found them to be terribly noisy as they wore and decidedly scary on gravel and sand.
The new Bias Ply tyres now have covered 5100km (3100M) and show minimal wear with the molding nubs still visible in the centre area.
The bike is SO MUCH smoother and quieter at all speeds.
I can no longer feel "tar snakes" or grooves in the road and there is no more headshake on gravel or sand.
I have had the bike up to 160kph (100mph) with the new tyres and it was as stable as I could wish for.
I agree that the PR4s will probably have superior wet grip but that is not a high priority for me as 90% of my riding is in the dry or only slightly damp.
I am happy to slow down a bit when wet.
The only "moment" that I have had with the new tyres in the wet so far is when I accidentally ran the fron tyre over a wet "catseye" going around a sweeper.
The front tyre stepped sideways just a few millimetres.
So far, I am particularly happy with the Commander 2 on the rear.
It feels very stable.

Macka
 

Tonydtiger1971

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Not related to a Radial/Bias mix but FWIW, I have recently changed back from PR4s to a Pilot Activ front and a 160/70 Commander 2 rear.
The PR4s never gave me a confident feel except for straight line braking which was Awesome, even on the wet!
I found them to be terribly noisy as they wore and decidedly scary on gravel and sand.
The new Bias Ply tyres now have covered 5100km (3100M) and show minimal wear with the molding nubs still visible in the centre area.
The bike is SO MUCH smoother and quieter at all speeds.
I can no longer feel "tar snakes" or grooves in the road and there is no more headshake on gravel or sand.
I have had the bike up to 160kph (100mph) with the new tyres and it was as stable as I could wish for.
I agree that the PR4s will probably have superior wet grip but that is not a high priority for me as 90% of my riding is in the dry or only slightly damp.
I am happy to slow down a bit when wet.
The only "moment" that I have had with the new tyres in the wet so far is when I accidentally ran the fron tyre over a wet "catseye" going around a sweeper.
The front tyre stepped sideways just a few millimetres.
So far, I am particularly happy with the Commander 2 on the rear.
It feels very stable.

Macka
Hi Macka;

This is how my bike came equipped when I first got it. I have put a pr4 on the front since as the active wore out at 16k miles or so. the Commander 2 on the back is still going, if the previous owners notes are correct I'm close to 20k miles now and it still has plenty of tread and I can see no handling difference than other bikes I've ridden. Now on that note I do not ride really aggressive and my background up until 2 years ago was cruisers.
 

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Does the 160/70 Commander have any fit issues on the bike? With the PR4s, my speedometer reading and the GPS speed reading are identical. I've never had that before and it's kind of nice. How close is the speedometer to GPS-indicated speed with the 160/70? That sounds like a setup I might try, since I'm past my aggressive riding days.
 

Tonydtiger1971

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Does the 160/70 Commander have any fit issues on the bike? With the PR4s, my speedometer reading and the GPS speed reading are identical. I've never had that before and it's kind of nice. How close is the speedometer to GPS-indicated speed with the 160/70? That sounds like a setup I might try, since I'm past my aggressive riding days.
I have not noticed any difference when I go by the radar signs around here. I will ride tomorrow with my gps and see if I can notice a difference.
 
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Does the 160/70 Commander have any fit issues on the bike? With the PR4s, my speedometer reading and the GPS speed reading are identical. I've never had that before and it's kind of nice. How close is the speedometer to GPS-indicated speed with the 160/70? That sounds like a setup I might try, since I'm past my aggressive riding days.
The 160 is a snug fit when sliding the wheel back in.
It will rub lightly on the sides as it goes in but is not a problem.
My speedometer used to be about 4% high and the odometer about 3% high.
The speedo is now 1% high and the odometer is amazingly accurate (about 0.003% high).
Therefore, the difference is about 3%.
This is confirmed by GPS.

As I have mentioned on a similar thread on the UK site, I have noticed a slight 3-4% increase in fuel consumption since they were fitted but it may just be due to extreme cold weather here. The bike often struggles to reach normal coolant temperature and takes a lot longer for the instant consumption to drop to normal figures.

Macka
 
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For those of you have been paying attention, you may have thought "Aha, Macka has slipped up here and not made the connection between the 3% slower odo and the 3-4% increase in consumption".
Sorry guys, you did not catch me napping.
I should have mentioned that my consumption figures are always calculated on fuel used and distance travelled as recorded by the GPS, not what the bike thinks.
The 3% figure appears to be coincidental.

Macka
 

Tonydtiger1971

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For those of you have been paying attention, you may have thought "Aha, Macka has slipped up here and not made the connection between the 3% slower odo and the 3-4% increase in consumption".
Sorry guys, you did not catch me napping.
I should have mentioned that my consumption figures are always calculated on fuel used and distance travelled as recorded by the GPS, not what the bike thinks.
The 3% figure appears to be coincidental.

Macka
Ah, this would explain why my fuel consumption is lower than what others have reported on here.
 

Phil Tarman

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Tony, as long as I've had the NT, the odometer and speedometer have been accurate within 1%. I always calculate my gas mileage using odometer readings. For a long time I kept a record of what the indicated mileage was per tank, too. It was always 2-5mpg higher than calculated. It's still a good relative mileage indicator.

I always used to ride 5-8mph above the speed limit, but decided last August that I would relax and just run the speed limit. Of course, the day I made that decision before I left here to ride to Tombstone, AZ, for the start of the Three Flags Classic, riding at the speed limit put me just south of Buena Vista, CO, at high noon just in time to hit a little buck deer who decided he had to cross the road right then. That did $2700 worth of damage to my bike (which State Farm paid for, amazingly, in spite of the fact that my bike had 115,000 miles on it), and shattered my hand, leading to surgery and six pins two weeks later.

All of that mess was leading up to a remark that riding at the speed limit on two lane roads, which mostly have speed limits of 65 in my part of the world has led to mileage in the mid-50s instead of the high 40s.
 

Phil Tarman

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Tony, as long as I've had the NT, the odometer and speedometer have been accurate within 1%. I always calculate my gas mileage using odometer readings. For a long time I kept a record of what the indicated mileage was per tank, too. It was always 2-5mpg higher than calculated. It's still a good relative mileage indicator.

I always used to ride 5-8mph above the speed limit, but decided last August that I would relax and just run the speed limit. Of course, the day I made that decision before I left here to ride to Tombstone, AZ, for the start of the Three Flags Classic, riding at the speed limit put me just south of Buena Vista, CO, at high noon just in time to hit a little buck deer who decided he had to cross the road right then. That did $2700 worth of damage to my bike (which State Farm paid for, amazingly, in spite of the fact that my bike had 115,000 miles on it), and shattered my hand, leading to surgery and six pins two weeks later.

All of that mess was leading up to a remark that riding at the speed limit on two lane roads, which mostly have speed limits of 65 in my part of the world has led to mileage in the mid-50s instead of the high 40s.
 
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