What every NT owner needs....

Coyote Chris

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I forgot to talk about this with others at the rally. Many of us are carrying the mini lith ion jump packs now. Great for jumping small cars (V6 and below), Charging your phone, and jumping your bike. Remember that bikes with computers, fuel injection, high pressure fuel pumps, etc, dont push start worth a darn. These jump packs are small, light and cheep. I jump started my wife's old Subaru 3 times over the years.

But how do you test the jump packs? I have one in every car and bike, after all....

In the state patrol, we techs used this on the trooper's cars.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Portable-Battery-Load-Tester-6V-12V-Diagnostic-Charging-System-100amp-Car-Boat-/282360249184?hash=item41bdfb7b60:g:K2AAAOSwx6pYom08

Bone simple. You hook it up to the battery, read the volts, push the spring loaded toggle switch to simulate a 100 amp load, read the volts under load, then start the vehicle and read the alternator volts.

I am getting one to test my jump packs once a year. You can also do a reference test on your bike's battery to see how it ages (probably not like fine wine)
 
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Coyote Chris

Coyote Chris

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Ohhhh....new gadgets!!! That looks like something I could use. With all the bikes we have, it would be nice to keep tabs on battery life.
I used it all the time at the state patrol office when a troop came to my garage and said his battery was running down. If I had a tricky alternator problem, I would find it with an ocillascope but this box
is the bomb for quick checking of battery condition and charging volts.
 
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I wonder if that would work on the Li Jump Pack?
My Jumper has 5 LEDs to indicate state of health so I have never tried it.
I use my Jump Pack all the time when camping for recharging my MP3, phone, GPS and for lighting (torch) so I have rigged up a charging line for it in the RH Pannier.
It is plugged in and kept fully charged all the time the engine is running.
I have used it to start a 4 cyl car but have never needed it for my bike which still has the original battery in it (8+ years old).
I have one of those simple battery testers that you mentioned Chris but I have not used it for more than 15 years.
I found it inadequate for testing large batteries and the volt meter is not that accurate.
I moved on to more sophisticated testers many years ago as I needed professional results in my business.
I am not saying that it is not worthwhile for the home mechanic but it will only put enough load on to equate to cranking a small engine, not a V6/8 or similar.
Modern testers use capacitance and internal resistance as a test now, not load.

Macka
 

Warren

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I bought a jump pack about a year ago. I have already had to use it with my car after my son left a map light on.. Our NT's on the other hand as the battery is installed make connecting a jump pack to the terminals all but impossible. One would have to remove the rubber battery hold down so that the battery could be lifted to a horizontal position so that you could get the jump pack clamps attached. Anyone every used a jump pack on their NT that can confirm how you did it ?
 

RedLdr1

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I have one of those analog load style testers and it shows every battery as bad. New, old, car, motorcycle, whatever...been like that since it was delivered. But it would have cost more to send it back, to China :rolleyes1:, then to keep it around to annoy folks with... "Look you have a bad battery!" :rofl1: If I find a good unit a Sears, as they slowly go bankrupt, :frown: I just may grab it.

Off topic to a degree but be watching your local Sears Craftsman section. I recently picked up four of their nice torque wrenches for $25.00 each. :smile: Two Craftsman Micro-Clicker Torque Wrench 3/8" Drive and two Craftsman Micro-Clicker Torque Wrench 1/2" Drive. New in the box, with full warranty, but "overstock" merchandise. I suspect these were unsold Christmas specials shipped in from a closing store... Plus this roll around tool chest / cabinet Craftsman 52" Wide 18-Drawer Soft Close Tool Chest and Rolling Cabinet Combination - Red/Black was $499.99...plus $75.00 for home delivery. :D Once again brand new in the boxes. I don't mind picking Sears bones as they go away :eek1:...especially since Stanley has purchased Craftsman.
 
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I had a chance to use several of these type of resistive testers over the years working as a tech, they do work good, at least the quality ones like this:

https://www.matcotools.com/catalog/product/MD4370/130-AMP-BATTERY-LOAD-TESTER/

The cheap China knockoffs, not so much, you'll probably get what you pay for. Buyer beware. At any rate, these are slightly overkill for a battery as small as the NT, 100+ amps is really more of auto battery territory.

BTW, I can highly recommend the Shorai Lithium for the NT, I put one in 2 years ago and it's been flawless. Nice fast starts.

Brad
 
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Coyote Chris

Coyote Chris

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I wonder if that would work on the Li Jump Pack?
My Jumper has 5 LEDs to indicate state of health so I have never tried it.
I use my Jump Pack all the time when camping for recharging my MP3, phone, GPS and for lighting (torch) so I have rigged up a charging line for it in the RH Pannier.
It is plugged in and kept fully charged all the time the engine is running.
I have used it to start a 4 cyl car but have never needed it for my bike which still has the original battery in it (8+ years old).
I have one of those simple battery testers that you mentioned Chris but I have not used it for more than 15 years.
I found it inadequate for testing large batteries and the volt meter is not that accurate.
I moved on to more sophisticated testers many years ago as I needed professional results in my business.
I am not saying that it is not worthwhile for the home mechanic but it will only put enough load on to equate to cranking a small engine, not a V6/8 or similar.
Modern testers use capacitance and internal resistance as a test now, not load.

Macka
Good points. But I got a nickel that says it works fine. Dont know if the needle on the analogue meter can be "calibrated" or not but the relative readings are way more important.
Those five LEDs et al are worthless in that they measure voltage in some degee of steps. Voltage drop under a fixed load is whats important. That load "as built" in this model is about 100 amps.
Which is fine. The internal resistance and capacity is what is going to change and that is what we are interested in. I thought about building my own 200 amp model, using big honkin' wire wound
resistors and a analogue meter, which is much easier to read as far as what is going on in our case, but for 20 bucks I bet this one works well.
I would caution you against charging a lith-ion battery jump pack continually, only because others have said it MAY not be a good thing for CERTAIN batteries. Obviously, there are lith-ion batteries that are made for that.
My lith ion air matress inflater battery gets hot if I charge it too long. Never good. Look at those hoverboards.

Dont get me wrong. Modern testers probably work just fine. And you pay for that. But for me, in the frame of reference of the starter motor, fuel pump, injectors and computer, all you really care about is a minimum voltage and a certain amount of current from the battery or battery in parallel with the jump pack. And the load simulator will give a good relative reading, along with its analogue meter. I know YOU know what you are doing, but to some here who dont have our expertice, take an analogue meter and put it across your motorcycle battery and watch the needle from "Switch off" to Switch on" to "Start" to "Run" to "fast idle". Obviously some bikes turn on headlights at certain times but getting a feeling for what your bike does normally, or jump pack for instance, might be useful. Me? I change out the battery at any sign of issues AND carry a jump pack. 12 Volt Computers/injectors/high pressure pumps/ ignitions may not work too well at 8 volts.
(Jungle Jim had an issue with his battery at the rally after leaving on the ignition switch with the engine off too long. A good long ride and that battery acted normally. But a jump pack in good condition can save your butt
 
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Coyote Chris

Coyote Chris

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I had a chance to use several of these type of resistive testers over the years working as a tech, they do work good, at least the quality ones like this:

https://www.matcotools.com/catalog/product/MD4370/130-AMP-BATTERY-LOAD-TESTER/

The cheap China knockoffs, not so much, you'll probably get what you pay for. Buyer beware. At any rate, these are slightly overkill for a battery as small as the NT, 100+ amps is really more of auto battery territory.

BTW, I can highly recommend the Shorai Lithium for the NT, I put one in 2 years ago and it's been flawless. Nice fast starts.

Brad
Just an FYI, all these simple testers are is an analogue volt meter and a switch to put on a load which is in general a heating element or wire wound resistor, bare or insulated. My state patrol issue one glowed when it was working.
V=IR. 12 volts = 100 amps times Resistance. Resistance is .12 ohms. Watts = volts times amps. 12 x 100 = 1200 Watts. So what you need is a .12 ohm 1200 watt resistor. This is in simple terms but even if the resistance isnt exactly
.12 ohms, the relative readings will be what we are interested in. Decay over time of a battery is what I am looking for. I have 6-8 jump packs I need to test and see how they are doing.

A very important FYI. The state patrol went to jump packs in its cruisers cause using jumper cables was blowing up very expensive cruiser computers. Not every time but when you have 1,000 vehicle fleet it was noted that the number of blown
computers went way down when we went to Jump packs . Just sayin'
 
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Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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Black 2009 NT700
I bought a jump pack about a year ago. I have already had to use it with my car after my son left a map light on.. Our NT's on the other hand as the battery is installed make connecting a jump pack to the terminals all but impossible. One would have to remove the rubber battery hold down so that the battery could be lifted to a horizontal position so that you could get the jump pack clamps attached. Anyone every used a jump pack on their NT that can confirm how you did it ?
I have mentioned previously on another thread that I have added a short second starter cable to the solenoid so that I can use the Jump Pack clamps onto it and a ground point if I ever need to. I often have a heavy seat bag attached so I don't want to have to lift the seat.
Better still is the link just posted by Ntamer for the cable pair. That is a great accessory.
Unfortunately for me it says that they will not ship to Australia.
I will try to find another supplier.

By the Way: I have never had any heating problems with the pack plugged in for long periods. It seems to stop charging by itself when it is full. The LEDs just change from scrolling to solid and it seems to go into standby, whether on mains charging or 12 volts. The instruction leaflet does not say that you should unplug it when full. It only mentions that once the engine is started you must disconnect the clamps within 30 seconds. I understand the logic there! I assume that the charging current is limited to protect the Lithium Cells. However, once the engine is running you would have uncontrolled current into the cells via the jump leads.

I also have a permanent digital voltmeter to monitor the charging.
To get a more realistic picture of the battery at rest, without lifting the seat or plugging a tester into the 12v outlet, I just turn off the Engine Kill Switch and hold in the starter button BEFORE I turn on the ignition key. This turns off the headlight (reducing load significantly) and shows resting battery voltage with only the park/tail lamps and ignition load on. It is not true resting voltage (state of charge) but is only a couple of tenths below it.

Macka
 
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I have searched and found the one I want (XP-5 and early XP-1/XP-3 type) but by the time I buy it and pay the freight to OZ it would be just as cheap to buy a whole new kit.
Therefore, I will just have to be satisfied with my homemade cable. Hopefully I will never need to use it anyway.
You guys are so lucky over there. Because of your market size everything is so cheap.

Macka
 
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Coyote Chris

Coyote Chris

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10 Red NT 14 FJR, 17 XT
I bought a jump pack about a year ago. I have already had to use it with my car after my son left a map light on.. Our NT's on the other hand as the battery is installed make connecting a jump pack to the terminals all but impossible. One would have to remove the rubber battery hold down so that the battery could be lifted to a horizontal position so that you could get the jump pack clamps attached. Anyone every used a jump pack on their NT that can confirm how you did it ?
The negative clamp goes right on. The design to the positive clamp is such that you would have to hold it in place as the clamps are designed so that there is no way you can make electrical contact between the two clamps without opening them. My positive one wants to jump off the short standard headed bolt. A different taller headed bolt might be a solution, or grinding a bit of plastic off of the front of the red positive clamp. Or a short "L" bracket on the positive post under the bolt. Or the aformentioned adaptor cable. I cant even GET to the FJR battery so I have a high current adaptor cable pigtail wired in already.

Dont tell the lawyers but I take those red cover boots that come on bikes and rip them so I can easily more them out of the way. That's about as serious as removing a mattress tag to a lawyer. (This is sacralidge but if you put a short piece of stranded cable...one inch long, maybe 8-12 gage, into the red clamp and mash the other end onto the positive battery terminal, it would probably do the job.)
 
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Coyote Chris

Coyote Chris

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It appears that proprietary adapters are used for these. Mine looks like this.


View attachment 12508

The ones from NTamer look like this. Similar, but they won't work. The squared off end is different.


I'll just use some spare wire in the garage with a couple of ring terminals to hook up something the jumper cable clamps can attach to...and it'll cost me $0.

But I think the idea of planning ahead for when you need one, is great.

Chris
I like the way you think! (All my jump packs use the "Original XP-1/3/5 Sport" connector. )
This is my new favorite...I like the digital readout.....
https://www.planetworld.co.za/wp-content/uploads/JumpStarterKit_web2.jpg

Mine came in a nice case with all the cables but you can get them from 40-80 bucks on ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Car-Jump-Starter-Engine-Emergency-Start-Battery-Auto-Power-Bank-26000mAh-/121838599292?var=&hash=item1c5e257c7c:m:mdPSfqn-pQv2BcZjR4f2jxw
 
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Coyote Chris

Coyote Chris

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I had another reason to get to the area around my battery today. I'll simply hook up two wires and leave them tucked away so I don't have to take things apart when I have to use my jump pack.

Chris
I will do that the next time I fool with the battery. Especially for the positive terminal.....
 
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Coyote Chris

Coyote Chris

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Just an update. I got my 100 amp resistive load tester with analogue meter. The meter accuracy is actually very good. I didnt even have to touch the calibration screw. Say plus or minus 2 tenths of a volt. I have two lead/acid jump packs (old) and they drop to about 8 volts when I throw the toggle switch to "load" I expected them to be bad. I have an older Li Ion (three years old plus) that drops to 8.5 volts and I think this pack will now become a cell phone charger at camp. My newer jump packs drop to 10-11 volts from around 12.5 and that's fine. I know they will jump start a Subaru 4 cylinder so put across a low battery they will start my bikes just fine. I think I have a Li Ion pack in all four cars now and one in each bike.
 
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