Montrose to Greeley

Phil Tarman

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Dec 12, 2010
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81
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Greeley, CO
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2010 Silver NT700VA (ABS)
I left my son and daughter-in-law's house yesterday morning about 10AM and rode home to Greeley. Gunnison is 60 miles east of Montrose and lets you ride up and over two passes, Cerro Summit and Blue Mesa Summit. Just east of Blue Mesa Summit was the first of too many one-lane roads (with pilot cars) to count. I'd guess at least 8-9 stretches until the east end of Blue Mesa Reservoir (which, BTW, is full for the first time I can remember since seeing it the first time in the summer of '84. There are parking lot signs that are completely underwater!)

In Gunnison, I needed gas and all the gas stations along US-50 in town had long, long lines of cars and bikes and RVs waiting to buy. I found a Phillips 66 station on my GPS that was located about a mile north on the main street. When I got there, it had been torn down. I went to a station across the street and it was out of gas -- turned out there were several stations in Gunnison that were out of gas. But there was a supermarket gas station that had some.

While I was waiting there, I saw eight BMW test mule cars covered with the dazzle B&W camouflage. Three were SUVs, a couple were obviously 3-series cars, one was huge and had a grille that was clearly not a BMW grille. It was rectangular and had vertical bars.

From Gunnison I rode over Monarch Pass. The first 40 or so miles before the pass go up the Gunnison River valley and it's full of grass being grown to feed cattle and horses. When the ride up the Pass starts, there also starts a passing lane which made it easy to not get held up by trucks or slow drivers. Very nice climb with mostly 45-50mph curves with an occasional 30-35mph curve.

Then it was up US-24 past where I hit the deer last summer to where 24 turns east just south of Buena Vista and a slightly tighter 2-land climb to the top of Trout Creek Pass. Then north through Fairplay and over Red Hill Pass as you go across South Park. At the north end of South Park, just past Jefferson, you turn right and gain about 1,000' climbing Kenosha Pass. From there it's about 25 miles of down hill to Bailey. 5 miles west of Bailey, I met a very long line of cars and trucks unable to pass a big trailer being pulled slowly up the hill. When I could see what was on the trailer, I realized it was a steam locomotive. Not a huge one, but apparently a very heavy one. I'm guessing that everything behind that guy didn't get passed until they were south of Jefferson.

I thought I was doing pretty good when I got to the end of US-285 and turned north on 470 at about 3:45 -- until traffic started slowing down. The 28 miles until it eased up took me over an hour. I ride in the left lane and always leave a big gap between me and the car in front of me. I want the lane-changers to have a place to go. One woman couldn't stand the fact that I wasn't closing that gap and after five or so miles, during which we were passing the cars in the two lanes to our right, she dove into a gap and moved over across two lanes to the far right lane and managed to get back to the left lane in front of me. Then she did the same thing two or three other times. 25 miles north of Denver, she was jammed in the far left lane when I went passed her in the right lane. I never saw her again. :)

I was home at 5PM after 324 miles and 1,813 for the whole trip. My leg feels much stronger and I am much more confident about riding than I was in early July.

One of the magazines waiting for me when I got home was Cycle World. One of the staff members wrote a column suggesting that there are two kinds of balance. One is when you're standing, walking, or whatever balancing yourself. The other is when you're on something else balancing it. He argues that riding a motorcycle at any speed above about 20mph is like sitting on a chair. Anybody can do it. But then he said that he didn't have balance type two -- being on something and balancing it. He's been riding for a long time and still can't do slow-speed maneuvers. He'd taken one of police motorcycle training events and failed; he'd failed the slow-speed parking lot stuff at several other classes. I know just how feels. As much more confident as I feel about riding, I still tense up when I'm starting and stopping and when I've got to turn immediately after or immediately before slow-speed start or stop.

It was nice to learn I'm not alone.
 

DirtFlier

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Dec 13, 2010
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Troy, OH
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2010 Silver NT700V/ABS
[...he'd failed the slow-speed parking lot stuff at several other classes. I know just how feels. As much more confident as I feel about riding, I still tense up when I'm starting and stopping and when I've got to turn immediately after or immediately before slow-speed start or stop...Phil]

Unfortunately, it's mostly a part of getting old. I notice it (poor balance) when walking around or if I turn too quickly.

This morning, I did some riding exercises ("U-turn in a box") before I met my pals to go on a lunch ride. I'm going to do that each time I go for a ride and hope it will help reduce my anxiety with low speed maneuvers. I was an MSF instructor for 16 years so all that low speed stuff was natural to me then....but this is now. :-(

In ref to habitual lane changers, when I had to commute to work on the 405 Fwy in So Cal, I watched a driver go left-and-right continually for miles. When I pulled off the 405 at my offramp, that same car was only two cars ahead of me. I'd stayed in the middle lane all that time and it came out almost the same!
 
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junglejim

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Apr 26, 2012
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Northern WI
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Tiger 800, NT sold
The NT carries its weight fairly high and therefore is a little harder to manage at slow maneuvers. Most of us try to ride them too slowly. I have found that a little extra speed is helpful in tight circling. It takes a little confidence and practice to make the commitment. For a long time I tried to circle just below the threshlod speed of good balance. Once I crossed the threshold it became easier.

Another thing that complicates circling is the linked brakes on the NT. It is easier if you drag the rear brake, but the NT puts too much power to the front brake when draging the rear brake. So the beloved NT does not make it easy for us. If the engine had a little more torque at low rpm and the rear brake draged better we would like maneuvering better.

My Tiger is top heavy too and behaves about the same as the NT in tight maneuvers. The rear brake is better at draging, but the Tiger could use more low rpm torque too. The Tiger triple engine reves more freely than the V-twin NT, but that just makes it harder to hold constant rpm while circling and draging the rear brake.
 

junglejim

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His reply involved looking at balancing a pencil. That's difficult in the best of circumstances. But if you put the eraser at the top, you have a chance to balance it. Put the eraser at the bottom, and you can't do it. His answer involved the amount of energy required to move that eraser off-center. When at the top of the pencil, it took more energy than at the bottom.
Your MIT peofessor is correct, but the analogy is incomplete. The pencil is easier to balance because of the mass on the top resists movement and we can quickly move the bottom to stay under the center of mass. Moving the "bottom of the motorcycle to stay under the center of mass involves rake, trail, wheel base, tire width, head angle, and most improtantly rider skill. The geometry of all that determines how the motorcycle handles and the skill of the rider applies the inputs. And, to complicate it, I think low speed circling is different than low speed straight line riding.

Low speed maneuvering is a skill most of us could/should improve upon. But practicing is about as much fun as doing push-ups, so we rarely do it. The technical details are pretty complex and a bit subjective when combined with each other. That is why we all have our opinions on how a certain bike handles.

I like mine - you like yours.
 
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
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399
Location
Great Plains
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2010 Silver NT700
I am not trying to argue or by contrary. FOR ME, the tiger 800 XCx was easier for slow speed maneuvers than than the NT, and both the NT and Tiger 800 take more care than the DR. Yes, the Tiger can be a bit top heavy, especially the taller XCx with the WP suspension and 21" front wheel, but the weight and how it was carried wasn't an issue for me. I found the wider bars and tighter turning radius of the Tiger made it easier for slow speed tight turns. When I had the NT, tight slow turns always had me on the handlebar-turn-stops. It seemed I was always trying to turn tighter than the NT would let me. I frequently hit that darn horn button because of it too.

I think a persons size, arm and leg length may be a variable too and explain why different people can have different experiences.
 

DirtFlier

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Troy, OH
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2010 Silver NT700V/ABS
[..I realized then that I needed to go back and practice a few things that I had taken for granted...Chris]

Those low speed maneuvering skills will go away if not used often. Gotta get out there and practice...practice...practice.
 
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