Anyone experince final drive spline failure for NOT using Honda's moly paste ?

ett

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Aug 21, 2015
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Today I when changing the rear tire on my NT.
I noticed that the splines on the Final Driven Flange looked like they were completely covered in surface rust, did not appear to have much M-77 paste on them,
and that the entire insides of the wheel side of the drive assembly was coated and caked with what looked like graphite.
I assume that "graphite" is remnants of the M-77 paste from last tire change. Which was 10k miles and 9 months ago.

I've always used Honda's M-77 paste on the splines when changing rear tires.
And the dealership from where I bought the NT used; same dealership that did all the NT's maintenance for the previous owner; is very demanding to use Honda's moly paste on shaft drive bikes.
So I assume they also used M-77 when they maintained my NT.

But each time I used M-77 on the previous rear tire changes. I was very frustrated with using it.
Trying to get the paste to come out of it's tube requires muscles of Hercules.
For every tiny speck of paste that comes out of the tube. I would have to spend about 10 mins of squeezing the tube with all my strength and worrying that whole time that the tube was gonna burst.
Honda dealer swears this is normal.

Today I just could not get any M-77 paste to come out of the tube; even though I could see and feel that there was plenty of paste in the tube.
So after squeezing the life out of the tube for 30 mins. I gave up, went to the auto parts store and bought what an independent cycle shop uses on shaft bikes.
Which is: Valvoline Durablend Synthetic Blend Grease. A moly fortified grease.

I'm thinking that since the M-77 is so hard to get out of the tube. That perhaps last rear tire change I did not put enough paste on the splines.

Since the Valvoline grease was soo much easier to get out of it's container; the typical 1-lb tub.
I am certain I got enough applied to the splines today.

I did various forum searches.
And the closest relevant threads I found were these two:

Moly paste... And Tire changing?
+
Final Drive Maint.

But neither of them showed failures for not using Honda's moly paste; M-60 or M-77.

Have any of you long time NT owners encountered failures when not using Honda's paste ?

Thanks;
--ET
 

Phil Tarman

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ET, during my Epic Ride, I had the Honda dealer in Gainesville, FL, replace a rear tire. 13,000 miles later, when Chuck Henderson and I were replacing that tire, we found the splines nearly gone. It was obvious that the mechanic hadn't used any Moly-60 on the flanges. I still had an extended warranty so Honda paid for the repair. I don't know if the grease you used would have prevented the failure or not, but I'm pretty sure M-60 or M-77 would have.

I used to have pictures of the final drive, but can't find them on my computer now. All I can say is that it was ugly. Not only the splines, but the rivets that hold the cush drive were torn up.
 

mikesim

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I don't think the Valvoline product you used is the equivalent of the Honda Moly 77. AFAIK, the only equivalent to the Moly 77 is a Loc-Tite product that I could never find. The paste can be a dickens to get out of the tube if it thickens. The best thing to do is to knead the tube from back to front repeatedly before opening the cap to use. Apparently the product separates somewhat in the tube and the solids migrate to the front making it difficult to coax out. As much as I know that you don't wanna hear this, I would recommend removing the rear wheel again <sigh> and using the right stuff.

Mike
 
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ett

ett

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Thanks for the replies guys !

I had not ridden the NT since replacing the rear tire yesterday.
And I headed your advice today.
After manning a table at a local event all day today.
I stopped by a Honda car dealership right before they closed and bought a new tube of Honda M-77,
took the rear wheel off the NT and replaced (as best I could) all the Valvoline with M-77

The new tube of M-77 was much easier at dispensing the M-77 than the other tube I bought from the motorcycle dealer a year ago.

--ET
 

mikesim

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The new tube of M-77 was much easier at dispensing the M-77 than the other tube I bought from the motorcycle dealer a year ago. --ET[/QUOTE said:
It doesn't age well in the tube, that's why you have to knead it a bit before you squeeze the tube.

Mike
 
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The FSM calls for Honda Moly 60 or Dow Corning Molykote G-n in the US, Rocol ASP by Rocol LTD in the UK, and Rocol Paste by Sumico Lubricant in Japan.
 
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I know that many of will say that I am doing the wrong thing here BUT, as a mechanic with 47 years of experience in rebuilding engines, transmissions and differentials I can tell you all that I use:

https://www.crcindustries.com.au/products/specialty-chemicals/sta-lube-anti-sieze-engine-assembly-lube

on my drive splines. It only contains >10% Moly but is brilliant at preventing scuffing of camshaft lobes/followers/lifters on startup of a rebuilt engine and is easy to use.

I have been using it for the past 68,oookm (since I bought the bike and two tyre replacements).
The splines still look like new.
If I did not believe in it I would not use it. I have NO interest in replacing the final drive unit!
IMHO I believe that it is not so much the amount of Moly that is important but that it is cleaned and re-lubed correctly.

Macka
 

DirtFlier

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I looked at the official Honda motorcycle website for chemicals and they don't show anything called "M-77." M-77 is an assembly paste for Honda autos and I'd guess it was never intended to be used on the final drive/driven splines of a Honda motorcycle.

I've been using Moly 60 on the final drive/driven spline for eons with great success and I see no reason to switch to another product. Yes, it's a little bit expensive but I've only had two tubes in 15-17 years!
 
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We've been using Red Line on all the bikes.... Honda, Guzzi, BMW. Several many thousands of miles on 15 bikes since 2006. Never had a problem.

Convenient tub, no squeezing a tube.

https://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=82

We also use their Shockproof Gear Oil for the final drives in the newer (2005 and up) bikes. The airheads and my 97 R850R don't like the synthetic stuff very much.
 
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