Growing electrical problems! Keep it or trade it?

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My NT700 has 60,000 trouble free miles on it now.
My much newer NC700 DCT is only four months old and has continuing electrical issues.

I ask if any of you would keep, sell or trade a Honda with this many critical problems.
The NC700 DCT first had the left handlebar control cease to function.
That control operates the horn, signals, all-way flashers and the shift change paddles for the DCT.
It was replaced under warranty.
The dealer says "that never happens, we don't stock the part, and we ordered a new one."

Now the ignition switch works intermittantly, sometime turning even off the engine uncommanded.
I have to jiggle the key to start the bike and hope that it keeps running.
This too will be fixed under warranty.
The dealer says "that never happens, we don't stock the part, and we ordered a new one."

I worry because these are all electrical problems that the dealer claims to be rare.
The whole DCT transmission is electrically controlled.

I ask if any of you would keep letting the dealer fix the bike, if you would trade it to stay away from that bike's troubles, or if you would just sell it outright and stay away from Hondas for a while. The dealer offered a pretty good deal on another bike.

Thanks for any comments or advice.

Dave
 
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Dave, we are talking about a Honda, not another brand so that is the first thing to consider. Honda's are quite good and problems like this are not common.

The control and ignition switches are minor parts and while they should not fail prematurely, they are easy to source and replace.

The DCT system is a major part and although it is indeed an electronic part it is in a different category to the other parts as far as manufacturing tolerances and quality control goes. As far as I am aware there have been minimal problems with the DCT units in Honda motorcycles and Honda has been using the technology since around 2006 when the DNO1 was released.

Therefore I would accept the failures you have had and hopefully that is the end of your problems.

You may also consider asking your dealer whether you may be able to get an extended warranty at a discounted price due to these "never happen" problems.

Seagrass
 

mikesim

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Dave, I agree with Macka. The electrical problems you have experienced are likely a fluke. I don't know that the dealer can do you any good about a discounted service contract, but I'll bet if you contacted American Honda they would probably work something out with you. Explain that you are a loyal, multiple Honda owner but the problems with the NC have shaken your faith somewhat and would like to know that someone is behind you after the standard warranty expires.

Just my .02,

Mike
 
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I would consider that bike to be a challenge. Entire switch assembly failed completely? Not likely all switches in that assembly failed at once. What do they all have in common? They probably all share the same ground connection. Possibly the ignition switch may also share the same ground connection. I would locate every ground connection and actually take each one apart and clean, then reassemble. Trace and check every connector from the various components to the main wiring harness.
I have found that most technicians in dealers do not have a good understanding of electrical circuits and therefore will start replacing parts until problem or owner goes away. Good luck with whatever you decide.
 
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Dave,

When the dealer says "that never happens, we don't stock the part", it's true. Most dealers don't warehouse parts like in the past. A person has to order and wait, that's the way it is now. We, the customers, kinda have to except that.

What you describe with the left controls all going out at one time can only be a few things because the likelihood of all those circuits failing at the same time is incredible rare. The problem had to be either the shared connector for the left controls (which could be the switch side and necessitate the entire switch group be replaced) or a common ground connection becoming disconnected. Either way, it should have just required reconnecting a connector or tightening a common point. Ground points on my newer Honda (2015) isn't just a bunch of green wires tightened to the frame anymore, but it has become a connector with one side all shorted together, the connector is then taped up and hidden in a wiring harness. One wire will then exit the connector and be actually connected to the frame. I wouldn't be surprised if a NC700 is wired the same way. Now with the ignition switch acting up that could possibly be the same common connector or a ground. I'd have to see a wiring diagram for the NC700 to verify if a common connector even exist.

It it was my NC700 & it was under warranty I'd give the dealer another try if I planned to keep it. Let them replace the ignition switch and ask them to check common connectors and grounds. Investigate lemon laws and discuss that with the dealer. A motorcycle that cuts out on corner or going 80mph on a crowded interstate is a huge safety concern. I wouldn't be able to sell it to an individual without disclosing that "Oh hey, the engine dies at random times....just jiggle the ignition." I would expect that to knock about $2000 off the price.
 
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Omaha Nebraska
Most repair shops don't fool with fault analysis beyond the lowest field replaceable part, in this case the left switch assembly which admittedly does control a bunch of things but is only one unit. Assuming that fixed it, I don't see where you said you actually had any problems with the DCT itself, so the ignition switch is really only the second (different) failure. I don't think calling it a lemon is warranted yet. It's when they can't fix the same problem after several tries that that might be raised.
 

DirtFlier

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[...Ground points on my newer Honda (2015) isn't just a bunch of green wires tightened to the frame anymore, but it has become a connector with one side all shorted together, the connector is then taped up and hidden in a wiring harness. One wire will then exit the connector and be actually connected to the frame...dnktng]

Bundled ground wires has been the standard method for Honda motorcycles since the 1980s, perhaps earlier? In your case, it's possible that one or more wires have come loose from that bundle or perhaps the joint has suffered from corrosion?

They typically use a metal ring crimped around the a bare section of ground wires inside the harness and unfortunately, the wiring diagrams never show the actual ring location.
 
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[...Ground points on my newer Honda (2015) isn't just a bunch of green wires tightened to the frame anymore, but it has become a connector with one side all shorted together, the connector is then taped up and hidden in a wiring harness. One wire will then exit the connector and be actually connected to the frame...dnktng]

Bundled ground wires has been the standard method for Honda motorcycles since the 1980s, perhaps earlier? In your case, it's possible that one or more wires have come loose from that bundle or perhaps the joint has suffered from corrosion?

They typically use a metal ring crimped around the a bare section of ground wires inside the harness and unfortunately, the wiring diagrams never show the actual ring location.
Sorry, I wasn't clear on the grounding differences. My 2015 Honda (CB500X, not a NC700 like Dave) uses two 24 multi-pin connectors for combining ground points. The single circuit ground wires go to a 24 multi-pin connector without being combined with other circuits. There are no mid-harness ground wire runs of 2 or 3 circuits into 1 using a metal ring crimped around bare wire sections. All the circuits are shorted together in the 24 multi-in connectors. It looks like a large test connector, but it just a grounding device.

The 2010 NT does not use any multi-pin connectors for combining grounding points. It uses what you describe as the standard method since the 1980's. Things have changed.
 
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RedLdr1

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I look at this with a jaded view I guess. I've had new vehicles with "that never happens" issues and they can be a real challenge. When I'm restoring a classic vehicle I don't mind, and even expect, those type of issues. But on a new vehicle it would be gone...after two or three rounds.

Why? The skill level of the technicians, at most motorcycle shops, is very questionable. And finding one who understands electrical issues can be even more of a challenge than the real problem. Seeing the info about the 24 pin connectors just sealed that bikes fate. I don't believe most motorcycle shop techs can handle that type of repair. The "tech" who installed my NT's heated grips obviously only understood how to wrap duct tape, not even electrical tape, around wire connections...that were loosely twisted together inside the blob of tape. This is after cutting off the OEM connector on the wiring adapter rather than just plugging it in...:rolleyes1: I guess the pictograph install directions Honda supplied were above his comprehension level. Does anyone think that clown could find an intermittent ground issue in a 24 pin connector?

Honda can make a "lemon" just as well as anyone else in the industry, they aren't immune from the issue. With their world wide sourcing of components, from every third world country, those chances increase. Add an Extended Warranty to compensate? No... An extended warranty is only as good as parts availability and the techs skill level make it...and both are seriously lacking at most dealers. I'm not going to be sitting beside the road because of multiple "that never happens" issues...based on that update it would be gone now if it was mine.
 
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Here is a wiring diagram of a NC750XD. It is probably very close to the US's NC700XC wiring diagram minus the HISS stuff. It shows how the grounds go thru a multi-pin connector similar to my CB500X. I also see that the NC750XD not only distributes grounds via a multipin connector, but it also distributes 12vcd via a multipin connector (the Y/R wires in Junction D). Also of interest is that the handlebar paddle shifter switches do not share the same connector for the horn, turn signal, & dimmer switches. So if Dave's paddle shifters failed when the horn failed, replacing the handlebar switches doesn't make a lot of sense because it would have had to been 2 different faults to cause that problem.
 
OP
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SuperDave
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Here is an update and responses to many of your questions.

1. I think that all of your comments were right on the mark.
2. The original problem was intermittent connection problems with the turn signals and headlights. So your comments about a short may be correct.
3. The paddle shifters for the DCT never failed.
4. The dealer replaced the whole cluster and everything worked fine since.
5. The ignition problem arose after the left cluster was replaced.
6. The dealer replaced the ignition switch today. It worked fine coming home (20 miles).
7. The service manager reported that he probably could have “cleaned and adjusted” the switch but Honda policy is to replace (not repair) it under warranty.
8. I will report if there are any new issues.

Overall:

1. I don’t trust the bike.
2. The dealer won’t (or can’t) give me a low cost extended warranty. He did give me a contact for a Honda rep who may be able to help.
3. The dealer did offer a great deal on a trade-in. He does not have a 2016 or 2015 NC700 DCT in stock. I would have to move up to an Africa Twin to get another DCT from this dealer. That is too much motorcycle for my normal retirement driving.
4. I could get a non-DCT NC700 but I don’t like the bike that much. It was only the DCT that made it interesting. The NC700 has a crummy seat but the fuel economy is terrific and it lopes along on my rural road driving in Southern Idaho.
5. I could down-size to the CB500X but it doesn’t reel much different than the 700.
6. Kawasaki makes a cool Versys 300 that catches my eye. And it is light enough to be a contrast to the NT700 or the NC700. That would move me to an other dealer who doesn't want my bike in trade.

Thanks for all your help and useful advice.

Dave
 
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Hmm regarding the bundled earths in a multipin connector... Honda did the same on the ST1300 Pan European . All meeting in a connector under the tank , below and behind the injectors.Lots of wires in and one coming out.Where only a midget gaffataped to a long stick could reach them. Time , corrosion and eventual high resistance leads to overheating and shorting. All this next to pressurized fuel lines . Sudden loss of sparks and fuel pump leading to no power in the fast lane. Don't ask me how I know this.
Honda did a recall ,replacing the cap on the connector or if already melting the entire wiring loom. Mine bought second hand had somehow slipped thru the system. Honda however, replaced the entire loom even though 10 years had passed. Supposedly they overengineer it now so that it doesn't reoccur. Makes one wonder though.
 
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