Turn Signal Module - How Does It Work???

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Is there anyone out there that give an idea how the flasher unit works on this bike.

This is what I gathered from reviewing the wiring diagram:

• Specialize unit unique to this bike only.
• There are at least 8 wires going into this unit.
• Fully Electronic with no mechanical moving parts.
• Both the front and rear signals are connected directly to this unit.
• Flasher Unit converts only both the front single filament bulbs into dual intensity bulbs.

I want to know the following:

• Can I use LED bulbs with this unit?
• Is there a way to get Hazard/4-Way Lights to function with this unit?

If some knows anything about this unit, please share the information that you have. It will also enable me to move onto the next stage regarding this matter. I will greatly appreciate it.

Thank you in advance.
 
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Brillot2000
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I am pleased that I was able to the crack the code with the operation of the stock flasher unit and using it for Hazard/4-Ways Lights.

Here's what has to be done to get this to work. (For simplicity I made my connections directly at the flasher unit):

• Grey Wire to both the Lt Blue and Orange Wires.

• Once all these wires are connected together then all will blink simultaneously. I also found out that the front lights will stay in the Running Light Mode/Low Intensity when they flash.

IMG_8826[1].jpg

IMG_8830[1].jpg

I so found out the signal switch assembly wires are located behind the left body panel vent. That will be more convenient to make my connections to add a 4-way switch. I will be adding extension cables to both the 4-pin and 6-pin connectors and I will be splicing into those instead of the OEM Harness.

I also found out that turn signal bulbs are in the European BAU15 Base Standards. There are plenty of LED options available on Amazon. I will be purchasing a full set here soon and will be installing them.
 

RedLdr1

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I also found out that turn signal bulbs are in the European BAU15 Base Standards. There are plenty of LED options available on Amazon. I will be purchasing a full set here soon and will be installing them.
Watch the LED bulb's resistance. Someone else here tried LED's a while back and had to add ballast resistors to get the flash rate correct...
 
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Brillot2000
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Watch the LED bulb's resistance. Someone else here tried LED's a while back and had to add ballast resistors to get the flash rate correct...
This is not my first rodeo with LEDs. I designed and manufactured LED Lighting Products used on vehicles for nearly 15 years.

It's not the LED Bulbs resistance that affects the flash rate, its the current draw. A typical incandescent bulb draws about 2.5 Amps each. LED replacements will draw far less. That's where run into the Hyper Flash.

If this all leads me to nowhere or I am not happy with the results. I have a few other tricks up my sleeve that I can try using off-the-shelf components available at Autozone to get me a simple flashing turn signal and Hazard Lights for less than the cost of the Kisan SM-3R for $120. I do like the front lights as Running Lights though, I could live without them.

It escapes me way Honda did not use an 1157 dual filament bulb instead of getting a single filament to act as a dual filament to get two intensities. I was trying to do the same thing like this when I was back in college with one of my bikes at the time. I do not recall that I got it right. I do recall that I did have something that somewhat worked at that time.

:think1:
 

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I'm not so sure that you will find an LED replacement for the turn signal bulbs. First, how did Honda reduce the incandescent bulbs brightness? Is it an actual voltage reduction or a pulse width modulation scheme? Incandescent bulbs are ideal for either approach, but LED's, not so much. I have been tempted a time or two to determine how Honda accomplished this but have been too lazy to apply myself. Let me know if you have figured it out. I also wonder why Honda didn't take the easy 1157 way out.

Mike
 
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Brillot2000
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I'm not so sure that you will find an LED replacement for the turn signal bulbs. First, how did Honda reduce the incandescent bulbs brightness? Is it an actual voltage reduction or a pulse width modulation scheme? Incandescent bulbs are ideal for either approach, but LED's, not so much. I have been tempted a time or two to determine how Honda accomplished this but have been too lazy to apply myself. Let me know if you have figured it out. I also wonder why Honda didn't take the easy 1157 way out.

Mike
I actually found several on Amazon. These are my best picks based on my experience with LEDs.

Option 1: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075MXQM7X/ref=crt_ewc_title_oth_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2HOOKPEX3GKZL

Option 2: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072QRCYFD/ref=crt_ewc_title_dp_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A17977WB0MUT0S

Using and LED to get a lower intensity would be depenant on how the circuit to drive the LED was configured. If only resistors are used, then it is an easy task. If there's a driver circuit is used with a range of operation, then no it would not be possible.

As mentioned I do not have my heart set on the Running Light feature and I can live without it if I have to.

This bike has its roots in the European market, thus the reason the European bulbs were used in the turn signals.

I also installed these LEDs into the brake light for about $20 for the set. Philips Ultinon LED 1157RULRX2
 

mikesim

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It looks like option one is your best bet if Honda chose a voltage reduction scheme as it has a wide operating voltage and a 360 degree LED array. I'm still not sure however that LED's will function properly if a pulse width modulation scheme is being used.

Mike
 
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Brillot2000
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It looks like option one is your best bet if Honda chose a voltage reduction scheme as it has a wide operating voltage and a 360 degree LED array. I'm still not sure however that LED's will function properly if a pulse width modulation scheme is being used.

Mike
We will see if they can. If it does not, I always have Plan B doing the EP35 Flasher Conversion that I mentioned before.

I did manage to complete my Hazard/4-ways conversion last night. Yesterday afternoon I went to All Electronics to buy all the supplies that I would need to do this conversion and a few other planned projects for this bike. They sell a variety of double-ended cable assemblies with the common connectors used on most Hondas. I bought an assortment of these cables. This project requried both the 4 conductor (CAT# CON-40) and 6 conductor (CAT# CON-60) cables that they sell. I used these cable plugged in between the left switch assembly and main wiring harness. I used these cables to make all my splices and left the OEM Harness alone. I mounted a pushbutton next the clutch lever perch and I will be making a more permanent solution to the mount the switch more firmly. For the time being, I zip tied it to the wires coming out of the left switch assembly.

It works like a charm. As mentioned using the OEM Flasher Unit, the front lights transition from low to high intensity when engaged. I am alright this that for the time being.

I will provide more information on the Hazard/4-Way Conversion at a later time. Perhaps some images too.
 
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Brillot2000
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It looks like option one is your best bet if Honda chose a voltage reduction scheme as it has a wide operating voltage and a 360 degree LED array. I'm still not sure however that LED's will function properly if a pulse width modulation scheme is being used.

Mike
I was working on NaTalie over the weekend and had to take off the bodywork on the left side only. I measured the stock bulb height and found it to be about 50 mm and the hight output LED bulb that I mentioned on that dimension is 60 mm. I measured the depth of the front lens opening to the interier of lens and found out that bulb would collide with the lens. However, it could be used in the rear lens without any issues. I think that I found a different LED Bulb that would work with the front lens without any issues. TUINCYN BAU15S 1156 7Amber LED Bulbs
 
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Brillot2000
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The Super Bright LEDs that I ordered for the rear turn signals arrived yesterday. [URL="https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075MXQM7X/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1]LUYED (2) Premium Amber LED Turn Signals, Super Bright[/URL]

I have prepared this side-by-side video on YouTube for you all to see the difference for yourselves.

[video=youtube;EFqRaJfV9YU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFqRaJfV9YU[/video]

I had to install 12Ω 25W Load Stabilizing Resistors to get the flash rate to the normal rate. These bulbs fit perfectly in the rear, however, they will not fit in the front due to there length.

I took a bunch of pictures of the LED bulb and I will create an album and share them with you all at a later time. I the link will be posted in this thread after I have uploaded the imagines.
 

Phil Tarman

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The LED light is definitely brigher, Bruce. Thanks for sharing.
 
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Brillot2000
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Good News the stock flasher will support Hazards/4-Ways. I wanted to share the modification instructions with you all.

A DPDT switch or pushbutton will need to installed and tapped into the Gray, Orange, Light Blue wires close to the left switch connections to the main harness. See the basic connection diagram below.

NT700V_4-WaysMod.jpg

I used a set of patch cords in both 4-pins and 6-pins I purchased these cable assemblies from All Electronics 4 CONDUCTOR CONNECTOR and 6 CONDUCTOR CONNECTOR. I made all the required splices into these cables and simply plugged them in between the connection points. This made for a clean installation and can easily be returned to stock if needed.

Next was choosing a place to mount the switch. I choose to mount mine using one of the clutch lever perch mounting bolts. Next, I had to fabricate a mounting plate for the switch to mount in this location.

Here's a link to the Picture Gallery for this modification. 2010 NT700V Hazard/4-Ways Modification
 
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Brillot2000
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Good news everyone.

I found out yesterday evening that the OEM Flasher Unit can operate the front turn signals as running lights as well with the LED Replacement Bulbs that I selected. However, the installation of a 50W 12Ω resistor will have to be installed in parallel to each LED Bulb.

Please study the simplified diagram below.

View attachment 12854

A resistor will need to be installed across LED bulb installed as illustrated in the diagram. This will ensure that you will not experience the "Hyper Flash" and the front lights will continue to operate as Running Lights.

IMPORTANT NOTICE: I cannot guaranty that all LED replacement bulbs will operate in this matter or as a running light while using the OEM Flasher Unit. The ones that I selected seem to work in this manner during my testing. Individual results may vary.
 
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Brillot2000
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I'm still not sure however that LED's will function properly if a pulse width modulation scheme is being used.

Mike
I was able to verify that Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) is the used to achieve the dual intensities. It was verified by when I tried to take a few images with a camera. The scan rates of PWM can be observed through a camera as it is fast enough caught those scanning rates.
 
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Brillot2000
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Here's a link to a few images that I took of the installation of the LED Bulbs into the front turn signals. Front LED Bulb Installation Pics

I would recommend these for both front and rear turn signal use. TUINCYN BAU15S Amber LED Bulbs

You will need to install Load Stabilizing Resistors, I would recommend these, LM YN 50 Watt 12 Ohm 5% Wirewound Resistor Electronic Aluminium.
Please Note: These will require the installation and soldering of wires to them prior to use.

I would also recommend the use of Posi-Tap to tap the wires into the harness. Lockitt POSI-TAP Wire Connectors 20-22 AWG

All the above recommendations are for those seeking to do the same modifications as I did to the Turn Signals on their NT700V to use LED Bulbs.
 
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Brillot2000
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Here are a couple of videos that I posted on YouTube showing the LED Bulbs in action.

[video=youtube;rjDK4JtoiiY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjDK4JtoiiY[/video]

[video=youtube;r4vKWQ5GZjQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4vKWQ5GZjQ[/video]
 
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