Rottela T6

Mellow

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I have to agree with that. SoCal our winters are 40° mornings and 60° during the days. Perfect riding weather for me, I used to ride in 18° when I was a kid. :rofl1:
I'll ride in 18 degree weather if I'm escaping...
 

Warren

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This subject has been debated numerous times on just a many forums. The "MA" rating is the Japanese JASO standard is not use on oils produced domestically. Here in the US, we use several rating standards, one of which is the dual letter rating system such as "SJ" on the seal in the back label of the oil bottle. The proceeding letters such as SM meets the previos requirements of the preceeding rating.

Oil_Figure1.jpg

You want to stay away from anything that has friction reduces or has the word "Energy Conservation" on the lower half of the outer ring.

Oil_Figure2.jpg

In the NT700V's owner manual regarding oil types to use, it clearly states SG or higher except oils labels as energy conservation on the API service label. Therefore any oil that meets these requires can be used, conventional, synthetic or synthetic blend.
Shell Rottela T6 which is the subject of this post does have the MA designation on it. I would still use it however even if it didn't.
 
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I am a Moderator on the www.suzukisavage.com, and we have spent a lot of time discussing and investigating appropriate oils to use in the Savage. The engine is a somewhat primitive single cylinder, and using an oil with a low ZDDP level results in accelerated wear to the camshaft and rockers. The cam in this motorcycle uses a split rocker that operates two valves with each rocker, and this results in pretty high forces at the cam/rocker interface as a result of the 4 valve springs (2 inner/2 outer) on the pair of valves operated by each rocker. We have seen rocker/cam failure in less than 3,000 miles when folks use a modern car oil with only 600 ppm of ZDDP.

The Savage engine can survive very well with the Rotella T4 and T6 oils, as they both have 1,200 ppm of ZDDP. We have one member that went 150,000 miles before he needed a rebuild, and it turned out the only thing that was worn out of spec was the valve guides. The piston, cylinder, cam, rockers etc. were all put back in service - the only things replaced was the guides and valve seals, piston rings, and gaskets.

Earlier this year we begin to have problems with the reformulated T6 that had the CJ4 rating - they had too much Moly in the oil and some long term users were experiencing clutch slip. In the last few months the T6 has been reformulated and become a CK4 oil, and the amount of Moly has been reduced and the clutch slippage issues are no longer an issue.

Our Savage forum recommends both the T4 ($15 a gallon) and the T6 ($22 a gallon) as they are easy to find, affordable, and provide excellent lubrication - our members will never experience a motor oil failure if they use it. (We do acknowledge that there are more expensive oils that will work just as well).

I use the Rotella oil in all my motorcycles. I realize the EPA wants a lower level of ZDDP in the oil and they feel it extends the life of the oxygen sensor and catalytic converter - I use Rotella in my car and it has 141,000 miles and I have not yet had any oxygen sensor issues.
 
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mikesim

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The high ZDDP content also negates a lot of wear that may occur in the transmissions on wet clutch bike. A lot of guys with the older muscle cars are scrambling trying to find zinc additives to keep their rides running smoothly when all they need to do is dump Rotella in the crankcase and life is good.

Mike
 

DirtFlier

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[...The cam in this motorcycle (Suzuki Savage) uses a split rocker that operates two valves with each rocker, and this results in pretty high forces at the cam/rocker interface as a result of the 4 valve springs (2 inner/2 outer) on the pair of valves operated by each rocker...]

Honda tried that in 1982-85 with the first V4s and it was a disaster so all the subsequent engines had individual rockers & cam lobes for each valve, plus either spray jets or "drip feeders" for the critical wear points.
 
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Unless I'm reading this wrong, doesn't the NT also use one cam lobe to open both intakes or both exhausts? The manual shows the cam with only 2 lobes. I believe the Kawasaki C10 uses this arrangement also.
The NT does use one spring per valve and probably got the oil system right to keep the reliability up there with the forces involved. There haven't been issues reported on this forum that I know of.

Brad
 

Phil Tarman

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The Kawasaki Concours used one cam lobe to activate a forked rocker that actuated two valves. AFAIK, there weren't too many problems with that. The issue they had was that the cam lobes themselves frequently showed pits that were a result of their manufacturing technique. My first '99 Connie had fairly noticeable pits from early on in its life, but I never noticed any major issues. Then during a recovery period after one of my knee replacements, I had a local mechanic I respected do a full service of the bike and he convinced me that I needed to replace the intake cam and rockers because he said the pits were getting larger. I had about 104K on the bike then and totaled it when it had 115K. My guess is that if I hadn't replaced the cam, I'd have never known any difference.

I had a friend who had an '87 Connie who had the Parkerizing wear off the cam side of rockers on his exhaust on his way from near Denver to Montrose (about 300 miles). He had to stop and adjust his valves three times during the trip to keep the bike running. In Montrose, he found a guy who had a spare set of cams and rockers that Rick bought for $100. He changed both cam/rocker assemblies and adjusted the valves in the Rally HQ Motel parking lot in 2 hours and 15 minutes, using the pitiful factory tool kit (no torque wrench) and it lasted until he finally got rid of the bike when it had about 230K miles on it. I think it had 160K on it when he replaced the cams/rockers.
 
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Phil,
My connie also had pits on the cam. They never gave me trouble and lasted over 100,000 miles. I sold that bike and would have trusted it for lots more miles. The NT fits my inseam better than the connie did.

Brad
 

DirtFlier

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I've used Rotella (dinosaur juice) in my NT from the beginning and have seen no ill effects. I also used it in my PC800 that I bought new and put 102k on it before it was sold to a friend. And I always buy it at my local Auto Parts store because I'm not a Wal-Mart person! When you weigh the cost savings vs the possibility of keeping a local small business healthy, I always lean to the small business. Saving $1-$2 over 8k-12k miles between oil changes is a pittance and you could easily do the same by skipping the fries when you order a sandwich.

Ps. Phil - Now that you've put a fair number of miles on your lowered bike, any regrets?
 
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Phil Tarman

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Ps. Phil - Now that you've put a fair number of miles on your lowered bike, any regrets?
Absolutely none. But, I still need to lower the sidestand a bit more. I've decided not to lower the centerstand any -- just running the rear up onto a 3" thick wooden ramp i carry in my pannier works fine for getting the centerstand down.

I actually think I have more lean angle with the bike lowered and the peg-lowerers removed than I did before.
 

DirtFlier

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Yes, I had to redo the chop on my centerstand twice before I was happy. With the original chop distance (20 mm?) recommended by HyperPro, the bike was too upright and if I was sitting on the bike, it required that I tip it to the right very far before I could get the sidestand up and that was a very uncomfortable feeling!

The second time I did it, I made the cut at the bottom of the rounded v-shaped loop that you use to push down the sidestand. With the foot welded there, it tips more to the left when on the sidestand so much easier to raise-up when seated.
 
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Coyote Chris

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Unless I'm reading this wrong, doesn't the NT also use one cam lobe to open both intakes or both exhausts? The manual shows the cam with only 2 lobes. I believe the Kawasaki C10 uses this arrangement also.
The NT does use one spring per valve and probably got the oil system right to keep the reliability up there with the forces involved. There haven't been issues reported on this forum that I know of.

Brad
Right you are. And the C10 used the same set up. Someone who attended the COG ralleys told me the factory reps said that it was important to try and match the screw adjuster clearances on each fork fairly near each other. I set my C10's clearances about 4-5 times and they never changed much, like the NT's dont change much.
 

DirtFlier

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[unless I'm reading this wrong, doesn't the NT also use one cam lobe to open both intakes or both exhausts?]

Yes, you are correct so pardon my brain fart! Dementia is obviously starting to set-in. :confused:

Each NT rocker arm opens two valves but has only one pad at the other end to rub on the cam lobe but the pad & cam lobe are quite wide plus the rocker arm stand has built-in drip feeders that direct collected oil to where the rocker arm and valve stem tip touch.
 
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There can be a "huge" difference in price for T6. The local Autozone and Advance Auto both wanted $28 a gallon - it is around $22 at Tractor Supply and $19 at Walmart.
 
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