The Forbidden Fruit....

DirtFlier

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Coyote Chris had a link to a Honda Japan website and he longed to own some of what I'd call the Forbidden Fruit made for the Japanese domestic market.

They have tiered licensing in Japan, with 4 tiers: up to 49 cc, 50 to 125 cc, 126 to 399, and 400 cc and over. All of them have different testing requirements and qualifications. The under-49 is mostly scooters and as I recall getting that license was about as easy as buying a money order from the post office but it gets
increasing stringent from there. The cost for taking a test is minimal but you have to take a day off of work so you can show up at your appointed hour.

The over-400 test starts with you riding your bike to the starting point in a fake town with plywood storefronts - not unlike a Hollywood movie set. At the starting line, the test proctor has you lower your bike to the ground (pad provided), then you are given X-seconds to pick it up using the correct methods. Once you are rolling, another proctor follows you down the course on a scooter. At various points, fake people and cars jump out on mechanical arms and you have to take the correct evasive action. A good pal in Japan rides a 750 so he had the "over 400" license and he bragged to me about how he passed the test in only 7 tries! Apparently the average number of tries is somewhere above 12.

The 250 and 400 bikes are most popular in Japan because of these licensing rules so you see lots of ultra-trick bikes offered by manufacturers at these points. The UK and Europe also have their own form of tiers but it's usually restricted horsepower for the first year or two via something done to the engine or electronic controls.

https://www.michiganautolaw.com/blog/2013/10/11/prevent-supersport-deaths-tiered-motorcycle-licensing/
 
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DirtFlier

DirtFlier

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I noticed on the Honda Japan website they have the MSRP in large print and to its right in the same size text is the average fuel economy. Obviously not a country where the gas is only $2.25 per gallon!
 
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DirtFlier

DirtFlier

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[...The average cost for 87 is $3.25/gal here in So Cal...]

There is a buck a gallon surcharge for sunshine and warm temps! I paid $2.25 last Friday.
 

Coyote Chris

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Coyote Chris had a link to a Honda Japan website and he longed to own some of what I'd call the Forbidden Fruit made for the Japanese domestic market.

They have tiered licensing in Japan, with 4 tiers: up to 49 cc, 50 to 125 cc, 126 to 399, and 400 cc and over. All of them have different testing requirements and qualifications. The under-49 is mostly scooters and as I recall getting that license was about as easy as buying a money order from the post office but it gets
increasing stringent from there. The cost for taking a test is minimal but you have to take a day off of work so you can show up at your appointed hour.

The over-400 test starts with you riding your bike to the starting point in a fake town with plywood storefronts - not unlike a Hollywood movie set. At the starting line, the test proctor has you lower your bike to the ground (pad provided), then you are given X-seconds to pick it up using the correct methods. Once you are rolling, another proctor follows you down the course on a scooter. At various points, fake people and cars jump out on mechanical arms and you have to take the correct evasive action. A good pal in Japan rides a 750 so he had the "over 400" license and he bragged to me about how he passed the test in only 7 tries! Apparently the average number of tries is somewhere above 12.

The 250 and 400 bikes are most popular in Japan because of these licensing rules so you see lots of ultra-trick bikes offered by manufacturers at these points. The UK and Europe also have their own form of tiers but it's usually restricted horsepower for the first year or two via something done to the engine or electronic controls.

https://www.michiganautolaw.com/blog/2013/10/11/prevent-supersport-deaths-tiered-motorcycle-licensing/
Wow....thanks! That is very interesting...I wonder how much the test costs? I assume one gets a learners permit first.....
I have never been to Japan but I am going to take a WAG and say that a well tuned 400 with a 120 lb rider would give you all the speed and power you need there.
If you are a sumo wrestler, maybe not so much......do they have divided highways and if so, what are the speed limits?
I wonder if they have camping and national forests?
 
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DirtFlier

DirtFlier

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Chris - Last I heard the cost for the riding test was around $30; ostensibly not so bad but if it takes 10-times to pass = $300.

As far as I know there are NO learner's or temp permits to ride that allow you to practice before your test. Similar to cars, you have to complete the course at a state-certified, riding school and only then you can take the test. It is not allowed having your dad or a friend teach you how to ride.

They have some divided highways but the speed limits for motorcycles on such roads is lower than for cars by around 5 kph! In cities and towns, the speed limits would seem like a walking pace to us but I've felt the same when crossing into Canada from the upper plains. Their cars have a loud warning that comes ON if you exceed the national speed limit and in large cities/towns, you have to show proof of having a private parking spot before you can buy a car.

They have national forests but my guess is that camping is very limited. I've seen pay-to-fish ponds with concrete markers to show where to stand and the markers were only about 5-ft apart! I'm sure they have real fishing for hardy souls who can trek up into the mountains but that's only a guess on my part. Hunting via firearms or bow & arrow are non-existent.

A lot of their rules are based on the reality of having way too many people trying to inhabit a small space. The total land mass of the four main islands of Japan are roughly equivalent to CA except 80% of the land is mountainous and mostly uninhabitable so you have millions of people clustered in the tiny of bit of flat land between the mountains and the ocean. Their population is roughly 1/3 of the US population.

It's a different world. :)
 
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A lot of their rules are based on the reality of having way too many people trying to inhabit a small space. The total land mass of the four main islands of Japan are roughly equivalent to CA except 80% of the land is mountainous and mostly uninhabitable so you have millions of people clustered in the tiny of bit of flat land between the mountains and the ocean. Their population is roughly 1/3 of the US population.

It's a different world. :)
The Los Angeles Metro area is getting pretty dense with too many people in a small space as well. We have about 4 million people throughout the city. The single-family home has gone away and has been replaced by multiple floor apartments. The homeless population is just as dense. I live in one of the suburbs about 15 miles away in the San Fernando Valley which has a population of about 2 million people. Where I enjoy having a single-family home with a front and backyard.

Riding a motorcycle in LA Aera is like being in a battle zone. You definitely see the difference when you leave the signs of civilization.

 

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Chris - Last I heard the cost for the riding test was around $30; ostensibly not so bad but if it takes 10-times to pass = $300.

As far as I know there are NO learner's or temp permits to ride that allow you to practice before your test. Similar to cars, you have to complete the course at a state-certified, riding school and only then you can take the test. It is not allowed having your dad or a friend teach you how to ride.

They have some divided highways but the speed limits for motorcycles on such roads is lower than for cars by around 5 kph! In cities and towns, the speed limits would seem like a walking pace to us but I've felt the same when crossing into Canada from the upper plains. Their cars have a loud warning that comes ON if you exceed the national speed limit and in large cities/towns, you have to show proof of having a private parking spot before you can buy a car.

They have national forests but my guess is that camping is very limited. I've seen pay-to-fish ponds with concrete markers to show where to stand and the markers were only about 5-ft apart! I'm sure they have real fishing for hardy souls who can trek up into the mountains but that's only a guess on my part. Hunting via firearms or bow & arrow are non-existent.

A lot of their rules are based on the reality of having way too many people trying to inhabit a small space. The total land mass of the four main islands of Japan are roughly equivalent to CA except 80% of the land is mountainous and mostly uninhabitable so you have millions of people clustered in the tiny of bit of flat land between the mountains and the ocean. Their population is roughly 1/3 of the US population.

It's a different world. :)
Thanks, buddy! I am really enjoying your information about Japan. So much to learn...from the correct way to present your business card to the different types of bows.....I remember hearing long ago that at 50K miles or klicks, there was mandated an engine inspection so severe that many people just had a new engine installed and a firm sold the Old engines to the US. The Japanese I meet at figure skating events are very polite and respectful of others. My non-Japanese friends assure me that the Japanese wear masks to protect others from the germs of the wearer...very considerate.
So, someone with a 399cc license rides your bike to the test?
Lust lust lust
 

Coyote Chris

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The Los Angeles Metro area is getting pretty dense with too many people in a small space as well. We have about 4 million people throughout the city. The single-family home has gone away and has been replaced by multiple floor apartments. The homeless population is just as dense. I live in one of the suburbs about 15 miles away in the San Fernando Valley which has a population of about 2 million people. Where I enjoy having a single-family home with a front and backyard.

Riding a motorcycle in LA Aera is like being in a battle zone. You definitely see the difference when you leave the signs of civilization.

I am amazed you are still alive. As I travel around the nation to skating competitions there is one town that is striking ref bad drivers that that is Boston. The cars and pedestrians do not pay attention to any rules. Its a free for all. And I observed the cops doing nothing.
But when my wife and I went to Long Beach for a dog nationals, the very size of the metro area and traffic density put us into shock.
Chris whose town has three stop lights.
 

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I need to emigrate - a US gallon of fuel here is the equivalent of $4.98 at todays exchange rates.
Just curious. Our country has a fixed federal gas tax that was last set in the last century. It wasnt indexed to inflation and our infrastructure is so bad its killing people.
Is your gas tax indexed to inflation and how are your roads and bridges?
 
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Our fuel tax is not indexed to inflation but does usually increase annually. However this tax revenue is not pumped back into the maintenance and improvement of the road infrastructure, resulting in a steady decline in the state of our roads. I would certainly say that they are now at a level which is causing an increase in the volume of accidents.

It seems a high proportion of tax revenue is diverted to our welfare system which is currently at a level that makes it pointless for people to take jobs paid at the minimum rate when they can receive more sitting on their lazy butts in front of the TV all day. But that's a whole different kettle of fish which would take me a long time to vent my frustration at, and I really need to get to work to pay for all the taxes to pay the idle millions.
 
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In Australia we are currently paying around $1.50 per litre ($5.70 per US gallon) and from memory 40 cents per litre of that is a federal tax (fuel excise) and 10% is a goods and services tax.

The 10% goods and services tax is returned to the various state governments (not in proportion to which state it is collected from) and the federal excise tax is supposed to be used for improved road infrastructure.

The road conditions in Australia in general are declining and as far as I am aware very little of the collected fuel taxes end up improving roads.

Seagrass
 
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It seems to be a similar story all over the place. I guess we are all screwed, so I'm going to emigrate to Mars!

A little lacking in atmosphere maybe, but I understand there may be a free Tesla roadster waiting in the vicinity for the first arrival.
 
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I guess we are all screwed, so I'm going to emigrate to Mars!
Pack carefully before you go, it may take a while for the next care package to get to you.
How are the roads on Mars? Certainly a lot of new areas to visit.

Brad
 

Coyote Chris

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Our fuel tax is not indexed to inflation but does usually increase annually. However this tax revenue is not pumped back into the maintenance and improvement of the road infrastructure, resulting in a steady decline in the state of our roads. I would certainly say that they are now at a level which is causing an increase in the volume of accidents.

It seems a high proportion of tax revenue is diverted to our welfare system which is currently at a level that makes it pointless for people to take jobs paid at the minimum rate when they can receive more sitting on their lazy butts in front of the TV all day. But that's a whole different kettle of fish which would take me a long time to vent my frustration at, and I really need to get to work to pay for all the taxes to pay the idle millions.
Thanks! I always enjoy learning about other countries of folk here on the forum.....

In the US...
WHEN THE FEDERAL government last raised the gas tax, Hillary Clinton was the first lady of the United States. Mark Zuckerberg was a nerdy nine-year-old in suburban New York. America's interstate highway system was aging, but working just fine.

Oh, how far the country has come since August of 1993, and how far its infrastructure has ... not. The motor vehicle gas tax—those 18.4 cents that get tacked onto every gallon sold in the US—remains the primary funder of the road, bridge, and transit system. And even as inflation does its thing, cars grow more efficient, and the federal government’s transportation network expands, widens, and, yes, breaks, legislators steadfastly refuse to hike the thing. Now the Department of Transportation estimates the entire system will take at least $84 billion to maintain, not improve, each and every year.
 

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Gotta' be obvious that we're verging on getting political in this thread. Equally obvious is that many of us will agree with what you guys have posted ... and many will not. So, it if gets much more into political discussion, the thread will be closed.
 
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To get back on track. I'd like to see this bike make it here to the US. Honda CB400



Kawasaki just introduced the 400 Ninja. I really think that these bikes would give it a good run for their money.
 
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