Air Cleaner Housing O-Ring Damage found during Valve Checks

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Does anyone know of a part number for the O-rings on the bottom of the Air Cleaner Housing that seal to the Throttle Bodies? There doesn't seem to be a part number shown on the NT700 drawings on the Air Cleaner Housing Page or on the Throttle Body page. One of these O-Rings was discovered to be damaged during my 8000 mile Valve Adjust procedure while removed the Air Cleaner Housing. I believe this is the first time the Air Cleaner Housing has been removed, previous owner had from 1700 miles and I don't think he did the 600 mile check. If you have a NT700 Service Manual the O-Ring is shown on the top of page 6-47. Went to the local Honda dealer....no much help there.

The O'ring is close to 2" ID X 1/8" cross section, or 50mm X 3.5mm, not a popular size. I spliced two 1/8" cross section orings to make one that should work fine, but would rather have stock o-ring if possible.

Im pretty good at Honda part numbers, but I couldn't even find a similar model v-twin with similar air cleaner/throttle body setup that showed an o-ring. If I just had the first 5 digits of the part number from any model Honda, I may be able to find a complete part number. I new to v-twins...nothing like those 1960's Honda's.

Hey, the good news is my valves were fine at 8000 miles, no adjustment needed.

Here are 2 pics of the O-ring from the bottom of the Air Cleaning Housing.
 
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There are two other Honda models that use basically the same engine - the DN-01 and the XL700V (pics attached).

I've just had a look at the parts list for both of them to see if there is a similar o-ring shown on the throttle body and found that, even though the airbox design is different to that of the NT700V, there is an o-ring of a similar size to the one you need used on the throttle body (see attached page from XL700V parts list).

The details are as follows:
16189-MFF-D00 - O-RING, 51.6X2.4

I'd be interested to know if this o-ring is the correct part number and size.

Kathy
 

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DirtFlier

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Perhaps closer to what you want:

O-ring, 50.5 x 3.5, 91358-MG9-003 or 004. MG9 is the product code for GL1200 (Gold Wing) 1984-85. The 004 is just an updated version of the same part.

Two points - 1) You can't order parts for a non-USA model (i.e. XL700V) from your local dealer since the p/n doesn't
exist in the American Honda system, 2) I've always found it extremely difficult to accurate measure the diameter of large
O-rings because of the stretchy nature of the material.
 
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You can't order parts for a non-USA model (i.e. XL700V) from your local dealer since the p/n doesn't exist in the American Honda system
True - but the same part is used on the DN-01 which is/was sold in the US. The only reason I attached a page from the XL700V parts list is because I don't have a DN-01 parts list.
 
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dnktng
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The details are as follows:
16189-MFF-D00 - O-RING, 51.6X2.4
Yep, that part number is the same for the DN-01, which I can order in the US. And the DN-01 throttle body parts diagram even shows that the DN-01 throttle body has a NT700 model code "MEW" making it look like it should be correct.

The o-ring is held in by a ID & OD track. ID measures 50mm, OD measures 58mm. The cross section of my damaged o-ring is ~3.5mm, and is ~3.2mm where it was previously compressed. Hard to believe that a 2.4mm swelled up to 3.5 mm.
O-ring, 50.5 x 3.5, 91358-MG9-003 or 004
These should be a tighter fit.

My spliced O-rings still looks solid, and very closely matches the other good o-ring. I'm confident it will be fine for 8000 miles in what is a relatively cool, low pressure/vacuum, air environment. I'm going to order the 2 DN-01 and 2 Gold Wing O-rings and replace both of my o-rings during the next valve check.

Thanks for help,
Dan
 
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dnktng
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Looking at the schematic on BikeBandit.com: http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmot...8776#sch634019 , makes me wonder if the O-ring you're talking about is part # 12. It's a different size, so it probably isn't.
No, that not it. The guys at the local Honda shop said that the O-rings may come installed if I ordered a new bottom of the Air Cleaner Housing. Maybe, it is cheap...around ~$12. I ordered 2 new O'rings of the 91358-MG9-003 variety and 2 new 16189-MFF-D00 variety for $7.00. I installed my slice job O-ring until the next 8000 mile maintenance. It runs, and is all back together.

Still seems odd that there isn't a part number for the o-ring and Honda parts department was unable to find a replacement. What would their shop use if they were doing the work? Hopefully not the old one.
 
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I phoned Honda Australia yesterday and spoke to staff in the technical section about the missing o-rings.

Unfortunately the person I spoke to could not comprehend/accept that the parts list might possibly be wrong (a problem which I have encountered several times over the last +30 years - that plus a part being superseded with an incorrect item) and I was advised that if I wanted to purchase the o-rings I would have to purchase the air cleaner case (Ref # 6 on the XL700V - Throttle Body.pdf).

I asked if the o-rings would definitely be supplied with the case and was told that if they weren't shown on the parts list as a separate item they would be included.

I then contacted an Australian Honda dealer to get a price full well knowing that we usually pay more for parts in Australia than folks in the US do. The Australian price is $136.38 - more than 11.5 times the cost of the same part in the US!! That's two very expensive o-rings!!

I then checked out the cost of the air cleaner case in the UK and found similar pricing (ie, 10 times the cost of the part sold in the US) - see NT700V Air Cleaner.

So, I've just ordered an air cleaner case from PowerportsPlus in the US (they have very reasonable shipping rates to Australia) and the all up cost is just over $US18.

When it arrives I'll let you know if the o-rings are included ...
 
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dnktng
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When it arrives I'll let you know if the o-rings are included ...
My 0-rings should arrive within a week. I have the damaged oring to compare the new oring to, but won't know for sure if either variety fits until 16000 mile valve check. Motorcycle seems to run smoother with the spliced o-ring installed, but the new spark plugs and spark plug caps are probably responsible for it running extra super smooth.
 
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dnktng
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16189-MFF-D00 - O-RING, 51.6X2.4
Finally received o-rings. The Air Cleaner Housing is installed, so this is preliminary review. This o-ring appears to have too small of a cross-section and may not even form a seal.

O-ring, 50.5 x 3.5, 91358-MG9-003 or 004. MG9 is the product code for GL1200 (Gold Wing) 1984-85.
This looks like it should fit nicely. Cross-section is very close to the original and should be fat enough to form a seal. Circumference looks very close. The original o-ring is spongy, and all replacement o-rings are firmer, but I don't see that that would be an issue.
 
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I received the lower air cleaner case last week and, as I expected, there were no o-rings included.

So today I phoned Honda Australia and asked to speak to the National Motorcycle Service Manager - what a difference it makes when you get to speak to someone who knows what you and they are talking about!! The guy I spoke to listened to what I had to say and looked up all the relevant information (ie, parts lists and service manual) while I was talking to him. He agreed that as o-rings can usually be purchased separately they would not normally be supplied with the air cleaner case and that they are, therefore, missing from the parts list!!

He told me he would send a message to Honda Japan within the next day or so asking for details of the part number and that I should receive a response from him by the end of next week. Once I have the details I'll post them here.
 
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dnktng
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He told me he would send a message to Honda Japan within the next day or so asking for details of the part number and that I should receive a response from him by the end of next week. Once I have the details I'll post them here.
Thanks for running with this. I am impressed.
 
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Thanks for running with this. I am impressed.
You're welcome!! I've had cause to contact the Australian Honda motorcycle technical services department on a number of occasions over the last 15 years in relation to problems with parts and I've always found them to be very helpful and willing to follow up on issues I've encountered.

I last spoke to the National Motorcycle Service Manager a week ago and at that time he'd received advice from Honda Japan stating that the air cleaner case should have had captive neoprene o-rings installed (ie, they should have been bonded to the air cleaner case with some type of adhesive). He challenged this advice on the basis that the service manual advises that the o-rings should be replaced if necessary and asked me to send him a photo of the air cleaner case I'd received as a spare part (he also discovered that, as a spare part, the air cleaner case had never been sold Australia and was curious as to where I'd bought mine - I then had to confess that I'd bought it via a dealer in the US. :eek:)

Today I received the following email message from the National Motorcycle Service Manager:
Just an update for you, we are now in discussions with our Honda colleagues in Spain as this is where the unit is made and I hope to have an answer for you in the near future.
 
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Update: The National Motorcycle Service Manager called me today to let me know that Honda in Europe have tracked down the o-rings and have sent him a pair which he will then send to me. At this stage I expect to have them in my possession in early January - as soon as I have the part number I'll post it here.
 
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dnktng
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Ill order a pair as soon as i get apart number. Everything seems good with with my spliced oring, but it would be nearly impossible to notice if it was bad. 900 miles since the repair was done.
 
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Another update: The National Motorcycle Service Manager called me today to et me know he'd received the o-rings and to get my postal address so that he can post them to me. I asked him about a part number and he said that they didn't come with one and he suspects this is because they don't yet have one. However, he said he will pursue this to ensure they become an orderable part worldwide and he'll keep me updated.

He also confirmed that these o-rings are made of a different material to the usual rubber o-rings used to seal fluids in/out. I should receive them within a couple of days and, once I have them I'll be able to confirm the actual size and I'll post the details here.
 

elizilla

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Did he say what the material was? Near as I can tell o-rings all look the same, black and rubbery, but McMaster-Carr lists a dozen different materials, each with their own characteristics such as what materials they resist, how they hold up to heat, and cost.
 
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dnktng
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Did he say what the material was? Near as I can tell o-rings all look the same, black and rubbery, but McMaster-Carr lists a dozen different materials, each with their own characteristics such as what materials they resist, how they hold up to heat, and cost.
I'm not a material expert, but they are not the normal firm rubbery o-ring material. Materials that should be eliminated: vitan, buna, n-buna, EPDM, PFTE, silicon, polyurethane, or any other solid, hard material. The material is very spongy, with noticable air pockets, and a outer skin. My guess is neoprene, similar to wetsuit material. The purpose of this oring is to seal ambient temperature air at a slight vacuum with no chemical, oil, fuel resistance needed.

Great o-ring link. They sell a pack of fifty (50) 2" x .125" neoprene (if that is the correct material) o-rings for $10.77 + shipping. That should work. C'mon Honda, how 'bout a part number!
 
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dnktng
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McMaster-Carr's neoprene o-ring hardness is mearsured at "A70" (whatever that means), but according to wikipedia "A70" hardness is equal to tire tread hardness. So McMaster-Carr's neoprene o-ring would be more firm than the original Air Cleaner Housing o-ring. Probably still work, but it would be more firm.
 
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