nt700v Exhaust - engineering masterpiece

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mp cycle design

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OK - I've read most of the posts about the NT muffler and let me say up front - I think you guys are way to forgiving for the way Honda engineers designed this - to purposely get in the way of rear tire removal. I'm probably going to get most of the Honda purists a little angry. But I'm a design guy at heart - so the idea that you need to move the muffler out of the way to remove the rear tire gets me totally steamed. I don't think there will be many after-market solutions for the muffler - given the design and mounting constaints. But I'll be danged if I'm going to go through all of that every time I need a tire change. Honda engineers - you should be embarrassed by this design!!!!

So I have a mission to fix this and hopefully embarrass Honda enough to stop doing stupid stuff. I fixed it and at the same time lost 10 pounds and my muffler no longer looks like the top side of an aircraft carrier when its on the side stand. What was the fix - believe it or not - a stock Harley muffler. Before everyone goes all luney - one of the things Harley does real well is design a muffler that actually looks and sounds like a muffler should. The chrome and metal are far superior to anything on the NT muffler. And don't worry greenies - it also has a catalyst - so I'm not killing anything that wouldn't have died from something else anyway. In the end - it looks better, is 10 lbs lighter and sounds better (don't go all ****y - its no louder than the NT).

Now the bad part - I had to *******ize the honda muffler (wah). There is no sense replacing the whole system - I cut the system after the oxygen sensor and the center stand tab. I had a 12" mid-pipe fashioned at the local muffler shop - and sourced a stock muffler from a Harley shop ($30). Most Harley shops have a ton of extra stock mufflers - gosh really? My total cost was $55.

Now I would argue that my NT is faster - but the difference is probably negligable. The main point - I solved the issue of never having to mess with my muffler to remove the rear tire. Honda - if you are listening - I'll be happy to consult with you next time one of your engineers designs something stupid.

OK guys - I have thick skin - let me have it... Not sure how to attach pictures - hopefully the one I attached works...
 

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Interesting. Looks good but just a bit long for me. Shorten it to the same length the stock one was. Can you design a Dual exhaust system for the NT? If so I might even be interested in buying one from you. I would even ride back to Texas for the fitting. How about the emissions question. How does the bike computer react to the difference in back pressure etc.
 
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Not bad at all except just a touch longer to the rear than I would prefer. No arguement about the preposterous method on the rear tire change. Now the European members have said that you really don't have to take it off; that a little moving and you can rotate the stock muffler out of the way. The question becomes can you by the latter get a good torque reading when you put the rear nut on. I was told that is the killer you see and the reason that Mother Honda has you take the muffler off in the first place
 
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The muffler removal doesn't bother me - takes a few minutes and is easy to re-assemble single handed. The YouTube video by soundtechguy suggests that the rear hex nut holding the heat shield is an issue, but not on my 700. Completely straightforward.

Having said that, the HD muffler looks good.
 

Bear

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M.P. Very nice job. I agree that H-D Chrome is vastly superior to most bikes. The Brits also had nice chrome on their Triumphs and Nortons.

Would it be out of line if I asked you for a part number for the H-D Muffler?
 

Phil Tarman

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I think it looks pretty darned good! If it doesn't mess up the emissions/engine mapping, I seems like a good move.
 
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mp cycle design

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Sailariel - no its not out of line to ask any question - I don't have a clue what the part number is - I couldn't even tell you what bike it's from. That said - there are a lot of Harley mufflers that have the same design - with different mounting tabs. This particular muffler style has 3 different mounting tabs. This was not an easy install - the main mounting bracket for the OEM muffler is way far forward so I needed to use .5" aluminum plate to make an arm that would stretch to the muffler mounting bracket. Then I needed to cut notches in the arm to clear some of the protruding surfaces on the swing arm - so the swing arm has full movement without hitting the muffler bracket. You can see the muffler bracket with the drilled holes against the backdrop of the rear brake rotor.
 
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mp cycle design

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I was so impressed with the Harley muffler that I put on my CX500 and SR500 - I knew I would not be disappointed with installing it on the NT. With both the CX(1979) and SR(1978) - I was using Supertrapp mufflers that had the number of plates to match OEM back pressure rates. In both cases when I switched to the Harley muffler - it did not require rejetting and in both cases the bikes ran better. Regarding back pressure on the NT - if anything - the Harley muffler may take some speed off the top end. The Honda's muffler has more capacity - so my uneducated guess would be that the lower volume may mean I can't go 115 MPH - I may only be able to go 110. But speed isn't really what the NT is all about anyway. From the seat of my pants - it still gets to 85 fast enough. Nothing detectable performance wise and I'm not likely to test top speed differences anytime soon.
 

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tawilke46

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Great looking bikes!! And you do all the work yourself. That IS impressive.
Sailariel will love these bikes!
 
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I'm not really a fan of the looks of the NT muffler and it would be nice to have it out of the way for maint. I use a platform and drop the tire straight down to allow the muffler to stay in place.
Hondas are not alone on this. The old Concours had to remove one muffler and also the rear gearcase to allow the wheel room to come out. All this stuff is a tradeoff.
Good looking install. Is the extension pipe you added stainless steel?

Brad
 

RedLdr1

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The conversion looks pretty good... I do agree with the comments it needs to be a bit shorter though. How about some more pictures? :D With that change out the right side saddlebag should now open as far as the left side since the stock muffler isn't blocking it.

Harleys have mufflers?
Right up until some noisy parade pirate buys it anyway...:rolleyes1: The dealer I bought my Harley from had a room full of stock systems with zero miles on them.....
 
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mp cycle design

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Yes - the extension is 1 3/4" stainless - you will have to give me some time to post pics - I'll also include a drawing of the extension pipe... You are correct - the right side bag will now extend as far as the left...
 
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If it stops the NT from sounding like a generator then I am all for it! If the mounting were simpler I'd go for it.

charlie
 
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PS I had to work with some Honda (car) engineers in a previous job. Yep, what they do works, but, not the best design work. They frequently leave a bad design in place just because of the huge approval process for making a change. There is also the problem of 'who' did the design decision. If someone higher up it will remain, even if a bad design. They also design things like the muffler. Why? Cause you are not supposed to work on the bike, the shop is. And they don't care how much work the mechanics have to do to change a tire.
 

Nicole

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I might consider adding this to my farkle list ... It does look very nice! A little long as others have said
 
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So, being a engineer and involved with car companies I know how hard/easy it is to change a design for the next model year. Not that difficult. ESPECIALLY if they could show a savings to the company. But, there is no savings to the company. The consumer pays for maintenance so no downside to the company.

If the company lost sales because of it, then they MIGHT make a change. But, since most don't know about the hassle, or the fleet mechanics don't care (they get paid more to do a tire change), then Honda won't change it.

It does NOT make it a good design, just one they have no desire to change.

It is still a BAD design feature.
 
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I specifically bought a new bike so I would have dealer support.

If I wanted a bike where I would do all the work myself I would have bought used, and, it would have been another Moto Guzzi. :)

The muffler represents everything that Honda wants to have on the bike. As quiet as it can get and blended looks. Sound completely not important. Maintenance issues not even considered. As such it is a design success, even if I think it is a failure.

I am surprised there isn't at least one aftermarket muffler for it in Europe. Just goes to show that the majority NT owners are not interested in the sound out of the muffler, other than it being quiet. It supports my regular description of the NT as the next step up from a scooter :)
 
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