Coolant change and service manual error

Joined
Jan 14, 2012
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464
Location
Leesburg, Virginia
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2010 Silver NT700
I changed the coolant on the NT this weekend. Taking off the left side fairing wasn't that bad except for the meter panel. There were 2 tabs that just would not release. Finally got it off but I would have bet good money that it had been mechanically fastened with a bolt. I filled down those two tabs a bit in hopes that it'll be a bit easier to get it off next time.

First item of note is that the service manual for the NT would have you believe that there are 2 drain bolts for the coolant on the bike. WRONG!

The first one referenced is a bolt on the right side of the block just above the clutch adjustment bracket.

The second drain location is the bottom most bolt of the water pump (left side near shifter).

The first location IS NOT a drain bolt. IGNORE the manual's reference to this location. There is only ONE drain bolt for the coolant and that is the bottom most bolt on the water pump. Draining the coolant from the water pump got me all but about 1 cup of fluid. (I used my Airlift to draw a vacuum and coax the remaining fluid out of the radiator and back down to the water pump drain bolt).

Also for those of you with a Uview Airlift, the radiator cap mount is a bit too close to the upper fairing frame rail to get the Uview device attached. If you remove the two radiator mounting bolts on the right side of the radiator, you can move the filler cap position enough to securely attach the Uview device. I had to use 2 clamps on the reservoir tank tube to get a good seal (that's a thick hose). With a good seal, I sucked a good vacuum and pulled in the fresh coolant in about 1 minute, topped it off, filled the reservoir and the system held steady after the bike warmed up. Zero air bubbles and no mess. I love that little tool!
 
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GLG

Guest
Rob - Which model of the Uview Airlift do you have or would you recommend?

Thanks for sharing all the good maint. tips!

Gary
 
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Joined
Jan 14, 2012
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464
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Leesburg, Virginia
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2010 Silver NT700
Hey Gary,

I've been using the UView 550000 Airlift kit. Here is the kit on Amazon.

I've used it on all my vehicles. It is especially useful for systems with split radiators (like the Goldwing) but simplifies the fill process for any other system.

Rob - Which model of the Uview Airlift do you have or would you recommend?

Thanks for sharing all the good maint. tips!

Gary
 
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Joined
Jan 14, 2012
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464
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Leesburg, Virginia
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2010 Silver NT700
It is on the parts fische but not very obvious. Look under "Crankcase" and it is item number 9.

It looks to hold the two halves of the casting together.

Here's a picture of the bolt I'm referring too. It is the green flange bolt in the center of the picture just above the clutch cable adjustment bracket.



Any idea what the bolt is for? It doesn't seem to be on the parts fiche.
 
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Joined
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Tijeras, NM
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1984 Moto Guzzi T5
Now this is a topic of interest. I have had many vehicles that have gone well over 100k without changing radiator fluid. This is my first water cooled bike and I will probably not change it either until I need to change the hoses.

So, why do you change yours?
 
Joined
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Arkansas
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2020 Kawasaki Versys
So, why do you change yours?
Coolant loses it's abilities for corosion protection over time. Changing it prevents clogged passages and should help prevent water pump failures also. A bad water pump failure can leave you stranded. Not fun.
Besides it is fairly easy and not too expensive, so why not?

Brad
 
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1984 Moto Guzzi T5
I guess I'd go along with that except for my experiences. The only water pump I ever changed was on 240Z's. The bearings would fail at about 70,000miles no matter what you did with them. So, more than 10 different vehicles, all with over 100k miles on them and never a coolant related failure.

I usually change hoses around the 4 year point (80-100k miles) so that's when the coolant is changed.

Why not? I don't like opening up sealed systems unless I have to.

PS the coolant related failures I have had were on cars (the two 240z's and a motor home) that had the coolant changed more often.
 
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Leesburg, Virginia
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2010 Silver NT700
Brad is correct.

I doubt you would notice any degradation in cooling performance by not changing the coolant.

It is just preventive maintenance. You change it to prevent issues. That doesn't mean if you don't perform the maintenance on that schedule that you'll have problems. I venture to guess you are more likely to NOT have problems if you regularly maintain the vehicle though. I have several high mileage vehicles that have had very little issues. I don't know if that is necessarily because I perform the preventive maintenance as suggested by the manufacturer but it certainly hasn't caused me any issues.:cool:

As a general comment (not directed towards you), I don't understand the argument of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" when it comes to preventive regularly scheduled maintenance. The whole point of preventive maintenance is so things don't "broke".

I find it odd that folks (I'm not saying this is you, just a general observation I've noticed) will change their engine oil in excess of the manufacturer's suggested intervals (every 3k miles for example) yet they completely neglect coolant and brake fluid. Maybe the other fluids are considered more difficult to change? :shrug2:


Now this is a topic of interest. I have had many vehicles that have gone well over 100k without changing radiator fluid. This is my first water cooled bike and I will probably not change it either until I need to change the hoses.

So, why do you change yours?
 
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Joined
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But after out of warranty I don't change oil per mfg guidelines either. The one I will change more regularly is brake fluid on a bike (not in a car) since the MC is exposed more directly to the elements.

And if central AZ and southern NM isn't taxing on a cooling system I don't know what is. ;)

I guess being an engineer means I question a lot of things mfg's tell me to do. Read a lot about mfg testing and fluid/bearing mfg testing as well.

:)
 
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Leesburg, Virginia
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2010 Silver NT700
I'll adjust the maintenance schedule if I can determine if the item being replaced is still serviceable. Changing the oil/filter and coolant is so easy, I just follow the recommendation. I guess I could get a coolant tester or send the oil off for analysis but it doesn't seem like it's worth it to me.

The air filter, valve adjustments, spark plugs, and fork bushings are things that once I get a few changes under my belt, I can figure out if I can stray from the suggested schedule.

I double the mileage Honda suggests for the air filter change on my other bike and after my next valve check (if everything is similar to last time) I'll extend that also.

But after out of warranty I don't change oil per mfg guidelines either. The one I will change more regularly is brake fluid on a bike (not in a car) since the MC is exposed more directly to the elements.

And if central AZ and southern NM isn't taxing on a cooling system I don't know what is. ;)

I guess being an engineer means I question a lot of things mfg's tell me to do. Read a lot about mfg testing and fluid/bearing mfg testing as well.

:)
 
Joined
Jun 5, 2011
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Western Washington
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2010 NT700V, 2015 CB500X
Replaced coolant today. Thanks for the tip on engine case drain bolt that isn't a drain bolt. Here is what I'll add to hopefully make it easier for the next DIY'er.

I used PRO HONDA HP COOLANT 50/50 PREMIX coolant only because it is diffucult to determine what is equivilant. Had a bottle of Peak Long Life Silicate Free but after a few hours of research still wasn't sure of inhibitors, so I bought the $6/qt Honda coolant. The PRO HONDA HP COOLANT 50/50 PREMIX ingredients are
Water 7732-18-5, Ethylene glycol 107-21-1, Diethylene glycol 111-46-6​
So I would think silicate free coolant with those ingredients would be sufficient for future coolant changes. My Peak Long Life did not have the Diethylene glycol.

Drained radiator and system out the water pump drain screw with NT700 on center stand with radiator cap off without any vacuum assist. Once it stopped dripping, simply rocked NT700 on the center stand from front to rear tire finish it off and get the remaining ~8oz. Total drained was 2.3 qts from system and overflow tank combined. Replaced crush washer on drain bolt.

Fill went fine and was able to burp out air by rocking from front tire to rear tire while on center stand, then putting it on side stand and rocking left and right. I was able to put a full 2 qts in the system and 1/2 qt in overflow tank, and that is what the capacity is in the service manual. Burp, pour, rock it, pour, easy. Then ran engine for 2-3 minutes to purge air, refill (about 1 oz.), and done.

I did use a vacuum rig to suck out overflow tank, but it would have been just as easy to unbolt it and turn it upside down to drain.

If you don't have a vacuum fill rig, don't be hesitant to change your coolant. The hardest part is all that plastic.
 
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Go to the Honda Automotive dealer and buy the coolant by the gallon jug. A bit cheaper that the moto shop. Same stuff.
 
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Mar 2, 2016
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Silicon Valley
It is on the parts fische but not very obvious. Look under "Crankcase" and it is item number 9.

It looks to hold the two halves of the casting together.

Here's a picture of the bolt I'm referring too. It is the green flange bolt in the center of the picture just above the clutch cable adjustment bracket.


I went in to remove this "drain bolt" today, per page 7-7 in the Honda service manual. opened the radiator cap, then unscrewed this bolt. Turns out it is a bolt of at least 3 inches long. At least that's as far as I could remove it until it hit the rear exhaust header. And wouldn't ya know, not a drop of coolant came out. It seemed to me, also, to hold the crankcase halves together. There is an identical bolt at the base of the front cylinder, too. Came here to say ***, and consensus is this bolt should never have been shown as a "crankcase drain bolt" in the Honda service manual. OK, so big FU on Honda's part. But I'm still scratching my head on why, if this is NOT a drain bolt, is there a sealing washer on it? There is not a sealing washer on the apparently identical bolt at the base of the front cylinder. Any ideas? And, from what I have gathered, just drain by letting all the coolant piddle out the drain at the water pump, and don't sweat about any old coolant left in the system after draining from there?
 
Joined
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2020 Kawasaki Versys
I think that bolt at the center of the Vee must run through the part of the crankcase that is open to oil. The other visible crankcase bolts don't need to seal anything. Just pass from the right to left side crankcase halves. That is the only crankcase bolt with a sealing washer.
That manual error can easily throw us off.

Brad
 
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