Valve Check and Adjustment- Observations

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I just bought my 2010 NT with 3800 miles on it. It had never had the valves checked or adjusted, so I ordered the Service Manual and started reading everything on this site I could find about how to do your own valve check. Here are a couple things I found:

I finally got around to doing the check at 4200 miles.

From everything I had read I expected that loosening the front throttle body band clamp would be the hardest part. I followed someone's suggestion of using an 8mm deep socket with a 1/4" drive. I used that on both front and rear clamps and it worked quite well. It was a little tight up against a hose when doing the front clamp, and a little hard to see if was on the nut. I actually went to the opposite side of the bike where I could see the threaded part of the clamp bolt and could tell if I was on the head and if it was turning. One thing I would do in the future is to somehow cut 1/4" off the deep socket. That would give easier room to maneuver.

I also used a web strap to go up and over my rear Top Box and hook to the gas tank to hold it up. That worked well, gave me plenty of room to work, and I didn't have to disconnect and remove the tank :)

I used a SILVER Sharpie Marker to make corresponding lines and marks on just about EVERYTHING I removed or disconnected. That way I knew exactly where things were supposed to line up when reassembling. It took a lot of guess work out of things.

There was a 2-lead wire on the right side...I think it connected near the right rear side of the air box. Once disconnected that wire wanted to drop down out of sight...which could easily be missed on reassembly. I used some masking tape to tape it to a hose on the right side so I couldn't miss it when putting everything back together.

On removing the throttle body once the bands were loosened I just disconnected the wires and hoses that were necessary to simply lift, turn, and rest it on the left frame rail. I didn't have anyone to hold it for me, so I used about 3' of duct tape to hold it in place, out of the way. There were also some wires that went into a round, hard plastic encasement that were in a "C" shaped clamp on the air box. After unclipping that I duct taped it out of the way also. Worked great.

I read a post that someone had "nicked" the gaskets when removing the the valve covers, so I was being very careful. The rear cover was easy, but the front was a different story. It was very had to wiggle the front cover out without scraping it across things. On reassembly I saw that if I removed the rubber (or plastic) boot that has the clamp to hold the throttle body in place it was easy to slide the cover back without hitting stuff. It was only two bolts to remove that piece (don't forget to plug it with a rag or something). WAY better than later finding you have an oil leak and having to go back an replace the gasket.

One HUGE tip I read was to tie string to the feeler gauge. I did that and it helped a ton when checking the front cylinder exhaust valves. Due to the tight working space I dropped the gauge several times and the string made retrieving it quick and easy.

Next time I will invest in a 10mm off-set box wrench for doing the valve adjustment. All I had was a socket, and it took a lot more time because the set screw would move when tightening. BY THE WAY...SIX OUT OF EIGHT VALVES were OUT of adjustment! They were all too tight to get the feeler gauge in between. The only ones that were in spec were the two intake valves on the rear cylinder.
Of course.
Those would have been the easiest to adjust.

I couldn't find anywhere what size allen wrench to use to open the access cap for the crankshaft on the left side. I didn't have one quite big enough was all I knew. The cap for Viewing the flywheel to see the F/T and R/T marks is a 6mm.
I had to run to get a bigger allen wrench because it was torqued down real tight and I didn't want to risk stripping it. It turned out to be a 10mm hex.

Lastly, and I would appreciate any comments on this; after making the adjustments the engine is noticeably noisier. A distinct "ticking" sound can be heard, even after warm up. I know everyone said to err on the side of adjusting the valves slightly loose. I tried to get them all right on. I'm wondering if it's because 6 of 8 were tight, the ticking is normal now that they are adjusted correctly. Anyone?

Sorry this is so lengthy but I wanted to try to give understandable detail.

Thanks!

Tim (The T-Weeder Guy)
 
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skiper

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Plus one on the details also. Lots can be learned and-or avoided by posts like this. Ticking valves can mean too loose. But as far as car engines I"ve always heard loose is much safer than too tight. Too tight can burn valves. I'm sure an experienced MC mechanic will chime in on leaving valves loose..
 

DirtFlier

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In regards to your "noisier after the adjustment" comment, you may have adjusted some of the valve with the crank mispositioned.

Finding "TR" and "TF" is fairly simple but it's also easy to be 360-degrees out of position. Once you found one of those markings on the crank, did you check to see that both intake & exhaust rocker arms had clearance? If only one set of rockers were loose, it means the crank was 1 full turn out of position.
 
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skiper

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If what Dirtflier said is the case you really should do it again
 
OP
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Fergus Falls, MN
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2010 Red NT700v
In regards to your "noisier after the adjustment" comment, you may have adjusted some of the valve with the crank mispositioned.

Finding "TR" and "TF" is fairly simple but it's also easy to be 360-degrees our of position. Once you found one of those markings on the crank, did you check to see that both rocker arms had clearance? If only one set of rockers were loose, it means the crank was 1 full turn out of position.
Do the FT and RT marks have to be spot on with the notch or is it ok if you go past a 1/16" as long as both rockers have movement?
Also, if you go past the notch a bit, is it ok to bump the flywheel back (clockwise) to get the FT/RT marks dead on?
 

Phil Tarman

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I learned to adjust valves when working on my first '99 Kawasaki Concours. My teacher told me to ignore the timing marks and just bump the engine with the starter until the cam lobes were pointing away from the rockers. I worried that I'd lose precision, but he just happened to have a set of old cams. He pointed out that more than 180 degrees of the cam was ground so that it was a circle that was concentric with the shaft. So, if the lobe was pointed away from the rocker, you had the kind of clearance you needed whether or not it was exactly on the timing mark or not.

I adjusted those valves and the ones on my 2nd Connie for 165,000 miles and never had any problems. If you had six valves that were tight, getting the right clearances would almost certainly make more noise than having them so tight that the rockers never got off the valve.
 
OP
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2010 Red NT700v
I learned to adjust valves when working on my first '99 Kawasaki Concours. My teacher told me to ignore the timing marks and just bump the engine with the starter until the cam lobes were pointing away from the rockers. I worried that I'd lose precision, but he just happened to have a set of old cams. He pointed out that more than 180 degrees of the cam was ground so that it was a circle that was concentric with the shaft. So, if the lobe was pointed away from the rocker, you had the kind of clearance you needed whether or not it was exactly on the timing mark or not.

I adjusted those valves and the ones on my 2nd Connie for 165,000 miles and never had any problems. If you had six valves that were tight, getting the right clearances would almost certainly make more noise than having them so tight that the rockers never got off the valve.
Thanks Phil, that gives me some peace of mind. However, I may do has some previously suggested and go back in and give them another check. It should go much more quickly now!
To make the next adjustment easier I have ordered a 10 mm offset box wrench and one of those Z shaped feeler gauges that have a .006 on one end and .008 on the other. I found them on eBay for around $3 with $4 shipping. I think it will be well worth it. It was really difficult to get an accurate reading on the front cylinder exhaust valves with a flat gauge.

Does anyone know why the flywheel is rotated counterclockwise? It seems I may have heard somewhere that it could be harmful to turn it the other way, but I am not seeing any warnings to that effect in the service manual or anywhere else. I was able to bump the flywheel back, clockwise, an 1/8" or so to get the mark right on the notch after going beyond the RT/FT mark a hair, I'm hoping that didn't cause any problems!
 

DirtFlier

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[Do the FT and RT marks have to be spot on with the notch or is it ok if you go past a 1/16" as long as both rockers have movement?]

The bottom of the cam lobe (at TR & TF) is a concentric circle so being just a hair past or before is not going to hurt anything. I don't like to turn the crank backwards because the cam chain is pushing in the wrong direction on the tensioner.
 

mikesim

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I've found that the easiest way to make sure that the crank/cam are in the proper orientation for valve adjustment is to watch the intake valves of the cylinder you want to adjust. Rotate the crank until the intake valves go down (indicating the intake stroke). As the intake valves begin to go up (close) look for the proper mark and align it with the indicator. No muss, no fuss and no chance of getting the valves 360 degrees out of sync. Hope this helps.

Mike
 
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2010 Red NT700v
Thanks for all the replies everyone!

Some good tips and info on how to get it right...and good explanations on why cranking clockwise isn't recommended (slack in timing chain, and running it the wrong way against the tensioner).
It helps to know the "why"

It seems there should actually be quite a "range" during which the valves can be set: from the beginning of the compression stroke through the power stroke. I'm thinking both valves should be totally closed during that range- so being a bit off FTor RT shouldn't really be a problem. Or am I missing something?
 
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Phil Tarman

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Well, you might be missing something, but I sure don't know what it is.
 

Coyote Chris

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I cant vouch for this, but in aircraft mechanic school, an instructor told us HE was told by an engineer that valves that are too loose have issues too, besides noise and a slight valve timing change. It was his opinion that on certain engines, the cam is designed to gently take up the slack of the clearance (say .006 in) and then open the valve. If the clearance goes to say .010 or more, the valve will tick more but the cam lobe will not be as gental wacking the rocker and a slight amount of wear increase will occur. I am not saying this is true or false, but it is what was said.

Like Phil, I enjoy setting the valves on my Connie and always check them twice before putting everything back together. I would like to see a video of taking off all the tupper wear and air cleaner and sensor wires before I do it myself.
I am due in 2000 miles so after the rally I will take it to the dealer and then do the next one after that. One thing I have lost a feel for over the years is proper torque on the adjuster nuts....now I use a torque wrench....
Plus one on the details also. Lots can be learned and-or avoided by posts like this. Ticking valves can mean too loose. But as far as car engines I"ve always heard loose is much safer than too tight. Too tight can burn valves. I'm sure an experienced MC mechanic will chime in on leaving valves loose..
 
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skiper

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Yes - I learned the same thing you said about car engine valves. Too loose causes slightly more wear but too tight could ruin your engine in short time especially if you run it hard and or high revs. Doing it over as soon as reasonably possible is best. I hope i said to wait for experienced mc mechanic advice..
 

skiper

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I'm finding info on UK Deauville Forum saying opposite of some folks here. One group says our valves will get looser with time and others say get tighter with time ( engine hours ). Ipve been wondering if it's different for pushrod / rocker arm machines vs direct overhead / shim bucket design. Would each of these wear in opposite ? One getting looser and one getting tighter ?
 

mikesim

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In theory, all valves regardless of actuation method should get tighter with time. This is a function of valve seat recission due to wear.

Mike
 

DirtFlier

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[...all valves regardless of actuation method should get tighter with time. This is a function of valve seat recission due to wear...]

Very true. The difference is that rocker arms/w screw adjusters have only a tiny contact patch between screw tip-and-valve stem where a system with shim under bucket can spread the wear over the entire top of the bucket. The tip of the screw adjuster "wipes" across the valve stem and creates a wear point. In a shim system, the shim pushes straight down on the valve stem and any wiping (wear) .action is occuring on top of the much wider bucket.

It's obvious which system will require more frequent checks.
 

Coyote Chris

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Thanks, Bob! Those vids are great as far as they go.....it would be nice to have a vid that picks up where one needs to remove the air cleaner housing and throttle bodies, sensor connectors, etc. Also, it seems there might be tricks in putting back the cowl pockets and side cowl covers....Chris

One thing we do when we do the valves on the Connies is we have a piece of cardboard with drawings of all the tupperwear and places to screw in the screws into the cardboard drawings as we take them out of the bike. That way, you don't loose screws or forget what length or type goes were.....
Chris who likes lots of screws instead of tabs and Velcro.

Hi Chris


Mike posted a great link showing a variety of maintenance videos. Number three should be helpful but
http://www.nt-owners.org/forums/showthread.php?6145-Maintenance-videos

Rob Capozzi posted this excellent bit of how-to that he made himself.
http://www.nt-owners.org/forums/showthread.php?4926-Removing-the-Cowl-Pocket-and-Mid-Cowl-Lid-Video/page2
 

Coyote Chris

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[...all valves regardless of actuation method should get tighter with time. This is a function of valve seat recission due to wear...]

Very true. The difference is that rocker arms/w screw adjusters have only a tiny contact patch between screw tip-and-valve stem where a system with shim under bucket can spread the wear over the entire top of the bucket. The tip of the screw adjuster "wipes" across the valve stem and creates a wear point. In a shim system, the shim pushes straight down on the valve stem and any wiping (wear) .action is occuring on top of the much wider bucket.

It's obvious which system will require more frequent checks.
It is interesting to me that my Honda CRV, which uses screw type adjusters, only needs the plugs replaced and the valves adjusted every 110,000 miles or if they are noisy. The procedure , at least from reading the manual, seems pretty easy, although there is a special Honda tool to get at the tightly packaged nuts. Evidently, the new Ford Ecoboost engines use shim under bucket technology that NEVER needs checking...
 
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It is interesting to me that my Honda CRV, which uses screw type adjusters, only needs the plugs replaced and the valves adjusted every 110,000 miles or if they are noisy. The procedure , at least from reading the manual, seems pretty easy, although there is a special Honda tool to get at the tightly packaged nuts. Evidently, the new Ford Ecoboost engines use shim under bucket technology that NEVER needs checking...
Not sure why they would suggest that shim under bucket NEVER needs adjusting. Many engines use the same setup and while adjustments are few and far between they still need doing. Just ask any V-strom owner
 

DirtFlier

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In ref to the CRV going so far between valve adjustments, unlike our NTs the CRV engine isn't revving at +4500 rpm going down the interstate. My '06 Accord is barely above idle RPM on the freeway and it also has no specific mileage for valve adj.

The one set of rockers on the NT that was always troublesome to me was the front cylinder, exhaust on the right side (same side as throttle). There is so little space in that area that sliding the feeler gauge back-and-forth to feel for drag is nearly impossible. This last time, I found that peering at that part of the head with the right side cowl vent removed gave me almost a straight shot. What I did was attach a 10-12" length of 1/2" X 1/8" alum strap to the feeler guage with a small screw and nut.

Coming in from the right side and without any undo bending of the gauge allowed easy back-and-forth movement to feel for drag.
 
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