Valve Check and Adjustment- Observations

EX Winger · May 20, 2013

One thin no one has mentioned here is tha using two feeler gages when adjusting the valves in other words when adjusting one of the two front cylinder intakes , or exhausts I strongly recommend having the feeler gauge under one valve stem while setting the adjustment on the other. II don't think the service manual mentions this, My Honda service tech does this , and it is a highly recommended / specified requirement of doing mid 90's BMW valve adjustments. NOt to say that it is required for NT , but takes a little bit of chance out of the procedure.

Eldon

Chucksklrst · May 20, 2013

EX WINGER said:
One thin no one has mentioned here is tha using two feeler gages when adjusting the valves in other words when adjusting one of the two front cylinder intakes , or exhausts I strongly recommend having the feeler gauge under one valve stem while setting the adjustment on the other. II don't think the service manual mentions this, My Honda service tech does this , and it is a highly recommended / specified requirement of doing mid 90's BMW valve adjustments. NOt to say that it is required for NT , but takes a little bit of chance out of the procedure.

Eldon

So what is the reason behind this technique?

DirtFlier · May 20, 2013

If the bearing end of the rocker arm is long with great distance between rocker arms, such as on a BMW opposed twin, putting only one feeler gauge under a rocker can cause the whole assembly to "rock" on the oil clearance. On the NT. the rockers are close to each other and they actually angle towards the bearing end of the rocker so it is shaped like a Y. I tried using two feeler gauges on my NT and it made no difference.

suvcw04 · May 20, 2013

Why do some engines run forever with no valve adjustment, and others need it after every ride?
Hydraulic lifters vs solid lifters. As the oil man on TV used to say, "Pay me now" (when you buy a new vehicle), or "pay me later" (when you have those valves adjusted).

EX Winger · May 20, 2013

Chuck,

Dirtflier has answered your question better than I could. , I learned that drill when I had a R850 R, and my Honda tech learned it somewhere and still uses it on all of his screw and lock nut valve adjustments. It doesn't take but a couple of minuts longer and besides mother Honda is still taking care of all the labor on valves etc under the service plan.

Eldon

Coyote Chris · May 20, 2013

Interesting story about Ford Torture testing its ecoboost 3.5L six and what they found when they ripped it down in public at the Detroit auto show....
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/01/what-the-inside-of-a-torture-tested-ecoboost-v-6-looks-like.html
The shims didn't change their clearance.....At the Ford pavilion at Oshkosh flyin, I examined cutaways of this engine and other ecoboost engines and sure enough, they are shim under bucket. If you go to the maintenance schedule in the manuals, they never have to be adjusted....

suvcw04 said:
Why do some engines run forever with no valve adjustment, and others need it after every ride?
Hydraulic lifters vs solid lifters. As the oil man on TV used to say, "Pay me now" (when you buy a new vehicle), or "pay me later" (when you have those valves adjusted).

Coyote Chris · May 20, 2013

DirtFlier said:
In ref to the CRV going so far between valve adjustments, unlike our NTs the CRV engine isn't revving at +4500 rpm going down the interstate. My '06 Accord is barely above idle RPM on the freeway and it also has no specific mileage for valve adj.

The one set of rockers on the NT that was always troublesome to me was the front cylinder, exhaust on the right side (same side as throttle). There is so little space in that area that sliding the feeler gauge back-and-forth to feel for drag is nearly impossible. This last time, I found that peering at that part of the head with the right side cowl vent removed gave me almost a straight shot. What I did was attach a 10-12" length of 1/2" X 1/8" alum strap to the feeler guage with a small screw and nut.

Coming in from the right side and without any undo bending of the gauge allowed easy back-and-forth movement to feel for drag.

The standard automatic tranny 2004 CRV turns 2250 rpm at 60 mph. My 2004 stick turns 2900 rpm. I don't know why Honda did this...probably to keep the engine in a better part of the torque curve so that the speed control wouldn't kick out, but it is a bad idea, even though I still get better milage than an automatic. My 2006 Toyota Matrix stick and my wife's old 1996 Subaru stick are geared more sanely. Her stick 2004 Subaru turns the engine too fast, just like my Honda. But if one does the math, so to speak as far as cam lobe to rocker strikes before valve setting time, bikes still need more adjustment according to the manufactures...
Here is a shock...the Honda Fit screw adjuster interval is 50k.....the NC700 is one half a Honda Fit....guess what the valve setting interval is????

Coyote Chris · May 20, 2013

I think once you get past the air cleaner, you might be better off having someone else work the camera, probably outside....for better light. Then the wrench can concentrate on talking and showing tips and giving torque values, etc. BTW, can you turn the engine with the sparking plugs in?

"" said:
The beginning of Part 2 from Rob shows him putting the right pocket back in. There is a bit of playing around to get the pockets back in - I have managed to scratch the bottoms of mine. I tried to make a video the last time I did my valves and I discovered how hard it is to make a good one. Even with good lighting and a zoom I managed to get a lot of shots of my backside since the angle that I wanted was also the angle that I took myself as I worked. (Seems that videography might not be my calling..) That made me appreciate Rob's work even more.

DirtFlier · May 21, 2013

[...BTW, can you turn the engine with the sparking plugs in?...]

Yes, it can be turned with the plugs still in place but getting it to stop at TF/TR (on the compression stroke) is nearly impossible because the engine wants to stop before or after those marks. If you unscrew the plugs just partway, it's enough to allow compression to escape.

All the Honda recommendations for service intervals on the motorcycles are conservative while the service intervals for cars are more realistic. I don't try to make rhyme or reason of it!

Coyote Chris · May 21, 2013

OK, thanks! Yeah, that one plug didn't look very fun to take out......on the Connie, I put the bike on the center stand in sixth gear, remove the plugs, and turn the engine by turning the rear wheel....

"" said:
I do when I'm checking the valves - I have a very hard time with the NT's right plug. I use a pivoting socket handle - no ratchet - to turn the flywheel. It allows me to turn and hold it at the marks.

suvcw04 · May 22, 2013

They should all be hydraulic lifters. When was the last time you heard of someone taking their Buick or Ford in to have the valves adjusted? Yes, even hydraulics can need adjusting, but it is a rare event. The factory saves a few dollars, but the maintenance guy gets it back many times over.
Bill me an extra $200 when I buy the bike because it has hydraulic lifters. I would gladly pay it.

Phil Tarman · May 22, 2013

I've always guessed that space restraints might have something to do with the absence of hydraulic lifters on so many bikes.

One of the first bikes I thought about buying was a beautiful Nighthawk 750 that the Honda dealer in Loveland, CO, had for only $2500. Part of its attraction was its hydraulic lifters. As it turned out, the first bike I bought was an '83 Silverwing 650. Buying the baby Wing with its fairing and panniers is what got me on the motorcycling path I've been on ever since, so I'm glad I didn't let the hydraulic lifters dictate my first choice.

Coyote Chris · May 22, 2013

Pretty Ironic that the Fords are now using shim under bucket, eh? I don't mind screw adjusters when they are easy to get at (Yamaha 650 twin, or 1983 goldwing for instance) but hydrolics would be nice if they could take the rpm and not pump up and float the valves on an interference engine. I always admired the old Silver Wing and rode one but it vibrated too much for me....

suvcw04 said:
They should all be hydraulic lifters. When was the last time you heard of someone taking their Buick or Ford in to have the valves adjusted? Yes, even hydraulics can need adjusting, but it is a rare event. The factory saves a few dollars, but the maintenance guy gets it back many times over.
Bill me an extra $200 when I buy the bike because it has hydraulic lifters. I would gladly pay it.

Phil Tarman · May 22, 2013

Coyote Chris said:
I always admired the old Silver Wing and rode one but it vibrated too much for me....

LOL! Maybe that's why neither the classic C-10 Concours (like yours, only the better-looking Candy Amarinth Mica Red ... otherwise known as "purple") which was always vilified as a "buzzy" bike in nearly every review ever printed about it or the NT which, as you may have noticed sometimes seems to have lots of vibration to some riders, have ever seemed to have significant vibration to me.

Coyote Chris · May 23, 2013

Vibration fascinates me. I filled my Connie's Heli bars with lead and that helped the connie buzz but many people like a certain type of vib more than others....I will tell you one thing....the Old Triumph twins and the SR500 Yamaha, the Guzzi and the Indian made carburated 500 cc Royal Enfields all vibrate way too much for me...I gots no issues with the Connie and the NT....But if I could just get one of my many bikes back, I wouldn't hesitate to get my old 1981 XV920RH with the vetter windjammer....920 ccs of smooth riding. It was only here for two years but was very popular in Europe....sound familiar?

Phil Tarman · May 23, 2013

Sweet looking old bike. Any pictures of it with the Vetter fairing?

Coyote Chris · May 24, 2013

That's a good question. I was lucky enough to get the mounting hardware before the bike disappeared...I will have to go back through my slides and see if I have any bike shots of it. I also had a quicksilver Vetter on it which worked and looked good but put that fariing on my Yamaha 650 seca....One of the really nice features of this bike was the fully enclosed huge drive chain. It rode in a lithium grease bath and you just about never had to adjust the chain. I took the enclosure off and changed the grease about 20,000 miles and the sprockets and chain looked great.

Phil Tarman said:
Sweet looking old bike. Any pictures of it with the Vetter fairing?

Coyote Chris · May 24, 2013

Sorry, Phil...this is the best I can do....here I am about 1980 touring from Illinois to Colorado with the vetter on my previous bike to the XV920RH, the Yamaha 750 Virago.....man I should have taken more pics!!!!!

I still have those harness boots and wear them to weddings and funerals with my western denim suit my first wife gave me in the 1970s. I also have that field jacket....

Phil Tarman said:
Sweet looking old bike. Any pictures of it with the Vetter fairing?

Phil Tarman · May 24, 2013

Another sweet looking old bike! I guess that if I'd paid attention to how much I liked the bikes with Vetter fairings, I would have realized that I was leaning (subconsciously) toward traveling/touring instead of just being a cruiser-kind-of-guy like I thought I was when I started riding.

Coyote Chris · May 25, 2013

The 750 virago was a sweet ride....the ergonomics were actualy not too bad.....not like a gynochological chair at all. But one ride on an XV920 RH with the footpegs in a real world sport bike position and man oh man.....
I did put on handlebars that came a bit further back, but if they offered that bike again I would be all over it like stink on a monkey. Big tank, easy to maintain....fun to ride....no bad habits....why did I sell her???? :doh1: