Questions about Ricor INTIMINATORs

ken

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2010 Red NT700
I?m ready to pull the trigger on a set of Ricor fork inserts. However, I have what I believe are two simple questions that I have been unable to get answered. So I turn to the wisdom of our forum knowledge-base for help.

When I contacted Brian at Ricor, he told me to order SV-041-20-1001G1, which is for the early SV-650.

While that may be the best choice, there are other models that fit 41 mm forks: 041-20-1001VMAX for the 85-92 V Max, 041-20-1001TRALP for the Trans Alp, and the 041-20-1001KLR for the post-08 KLR 650. Am I wrong that there must be some differences between these models, if so, any idea what these differences might be?

I assume that an important variable would be weight. If so the SV is 198 pounds lighter, the Trans Alp is 141 lbs. lighter, the KLR is 130 lbs. lighter, and the V Max is only 18 lbs. heavier. Wouldn?t my bike be under-dampened with a fork designed for a much lighter bike? Wouldn?t the one designed for the V Max, which is almost the same weight as the NT, work better? Are there other variables?off road vs touring, suspensiontravel, etc.?that are more important than total weight?

Secondly, I see that Ricor sells shim kits in at least two sizes. I believe that these shims control the secondary rebound circuit which ?is fully adjustable and can be custom-tuned without affecting the handling performance of the primary circuit in any way.? So my question is ?are there differences in the tuning of these different 41mm kits?? Do they contain different size shims, or a different number of shims? Again, I?m still waiting for an explanation.

I?m not asking for proprietary information,and I?m not looking for professional road-race grade suspension, but I believe I?m entitled to information before I fork over my cash. In short, it isn?t that I don?t believe Brian, but I?d like to understand why the SV 650 kit is the best choice for me. As of now, I?m still waiting for that information. Can anyone help me with this?

Thanks in advance.




 

mikesim

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Did you ask Brian at Ricor? Surely he had some basis for recommending the one he did. I would call him back and quiz him further and if he can't answer your question, ask him who at Ricor can. Spend no money until you are satisfied with the answer you receive.

Mike
 

DirtFlier

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The key here is I.D. and NOT O.D.. Not all "41 mm" Showa forks have the same I.D. because of differences in wall thickness.
My 2010 NT fork measured 36.2 mm for the I.D..

I believe the Ricor for the NT was made for the Suzuki and was not designed for the NT but it works fine for me. Let's face it, no one is going to invest engineering/testing in something 100% specific to the NT because the potential market can be counted on the fingers of one hand! I have a good friend who has a set in his NT and he reduced the number of shims (or shim preload?) to get the ride he wanted but mine are still the way they were delivered. I went in another direction to improved small bump compliance by trying different length spring spacers until I was satisfied.

Some of your weight differences between brands/models seem to be a little extreme. Did you get all those weights from the same source so it'd be an apples-to-apples measurement? And some manufacturers, such as Honda, list wet weight (with full tank) while others don't add the fuel or perhaps only a half-tank.
 
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ken

ken

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Some of your weight differences between brands/models seem to be a little extreme
DirtFlier,

I admit I thought so too. After a much less cursory examination, I've learned two things:

1. it is difficult to find consistent weights for any of these bikes, given that some sources list fully filled tank, oil, etc. and some do not. For the SV 650, weights group around three figures: 364 dry, 395 wet, and 426 fully filled. In addition, several forum entries suggested that the "dry" weight given by Suzuki is suspicious, although no specific evidence is given to support that conclusion.

2. The "wet" weight of the NT is consistently given as 562 for non-ABS models.

Using these numbers, the SV is either 167 lbs. or 136 lbs. lighter. So even though the difference is less than my original figures, it is between 24% and 30% less. (I hope my math is correct.) That seems like a large difference, particularly if there are kits for bikes closer to the weight of the NT. Also, I'm a big guy, and I use my Honda almost exclusively for long-distance touring, and I tend to bring everything I can fit in or tie on my bike. So my bike is usually around its maximum allowable weight. That makes the difference between it and an SV even larger.

I concur with your observation about the possibility that some 41 mm forks could, and probably do, have other than a 36.2 mm I.D. That was the genesis of my original email to Brian. I guess what I really want to know is if the kit for the SV is the best choice for me, or if it is the only one that fits my forks, and thus my only choice.

I don't expect Ricor to have spent much, if any, time thinking about the optimum product for the NT, but I do think it is reasonable for me to think about it and for them to give me the information I need to make my decision.

I'm sure the SV fork kit would be an improvement over the stock suspension, but that is damning with faint praise.

Thanks for your input. I always find your discussions about suspensions both interesting and helpful.

Ken
 
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DirtFlier

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Motorcycle Consumer News (MCN) is a fairly expensive monthly magazine and without the flash and glamor of Cycle World or Rider. I believe they offer a special of around $35 a year for new subscribers. And it's generally not available on news stands so I've been a long-time subscriber. Since they DO NOT accept paid advertising, they can say whatever they want about a certain bike model, a new jacket, or a special tool, etc. And I don't always agree with 100% of their evals but at least they're honest.

Once (or twice) a year they have a "Performance Index" where they list pertinent specs of motorcycles they've tested. So the wet weight they list are all consistent since they make sure the fuel tanks are topped-off, engine oil is full, etc., so it's the only place where you can find an accurate apples-to-apples spec comparison. By coincidence, the January 2015 issue has their 2-page Performance Index.

Going back to the Ricor being suitable for your weight, riding style and luggage, you'll just have to buy a set then start to experiment.
As I may have mentioned, I had Race Tech Gold Valves previously and at least to me, the Ricors performed just as well, except they had that excellent anti-dive function when braking hard which to me made the swap worthwhile.
 
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I recently installed the Ricor's in my NT, and they provided no noticeable improvement in reducing the sensation of the fork tubes going into hydraulic lock when going over square bumps, such as small pot holes, or manhole covers that have been paved around without raising the cover to bring it up to the same level as the new surface. Neither have I experienced any anti-dive effect, as noted by at least one other Ricor user. Frankly, I don't see how the Ricor's can do much of anything to alter the damping characteristics of the damping in the stock damper rod, since the fluid still has to flow through those orifices too. DirtFlier had a totally different experience with his Ricor's, but he used them with damping rods he drilled out to unspecified parameters. I'm wondering if drilling the damper holes will allow the Ricor to function better. Or, can it even function properly with the damper rod holes drilled? Can the Ricor's be used as a fully independent damping system, compression and rebound, by taking the stock damper rod holes out of the equation? Or, if not out of the equation entirely, how much to drill the holes out? Is it something I could do with a standard set of numbered drills, or does it require finer graduations? Instructions? I know the Gold Valves come with instructions for drilling, but can the same instructions be used with the Ricor's? These are all questions I will be asking Ricor, but wanted to get input on here regarding the concepts.

I talked to a gentleman at Ricor before purchasing the valves. After describing to him I was considering the Ricor's to resolve the harshness over square bumps, he said he didn't feel the Ricor's were likely to meet my needs. He said he didn't think I would be happy with them, but he wanted to talk to Brian. When he came back, he said, "OK, this is why I ask him first to be sure." He relayed what Brian explained to him. To me it sounded strangely like some mumbo jumbo double-talk about how, with the Ricor's installed, the velocity of the fluid would never be allowed to increase enough to cause that hydraulic lock. I wasn't completely buying it, but hey, he's the expert, right? Or, just marketing? In any case, I wasn't buying the spiel, but I did buy the valves, and all I really have now is $200 and a lot of work into my forks for zero gain.
 
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DirtFlier

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Yes, Ricors cured the brake dive on my bike. As TurboDV8 said, I have modified fork dampers because previously I had Race Tech Gold Valves that require the compression damping holes to be enlarged plus two new holes added. The Ricor fits a wide range of bikes, but it is adjustable so you can dial it in for what you want by changing spring tension or fitting different wave washers.
 
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Since the same fork oil passes through the damper rod holes, whether they've stock or modified (mine are stock), the Ricors should work fine either way, right? I would expect that's why they recommend the lighter Amsoil 5W.

Brad
 

DirtFlier

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[Since the same fork oil passes through the damper rod holes, whether they've stock or modified (mine are stock), the Ricors should work fine either way, right?]

Yes and No, depending on what you want. My personal opinion is that compression damping cannot be made significantly softer with the standard, unmodified dampers. One of the bad traits the standard NT fork exhibits is harshness over what I'll call "square bumps" such as expansion joints, etc. Square bumps overwhelm the standard fork because it cannot move oil fast enough (through the compression damping holes) so what you feel is hydraulic lock.

ps. I love my Ricors but think their "drilling unnecessary" point is to help sales. The 900-pound gorilla in the room regarding sales volume are the Race Tech Gold Valves that do require drilling.
 
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