Final drive spline advice

posi

Guest
Hi guys. I introduced myself a couple of years ago but had no reason to post since. Doesn't mean I don't pop in for a read now and again

But I have a slight problem now. A UK owner has, like many others, just discovered drive spline wear. And of course we know about Moly60. But I recall reading somewhere, and I think it may have been here, of a Honda fix for the problem. It was related to poor manufacturer assembly of the final drive to the swing arm, and recommended a bolt tightening procedure. But I have searched and searched your forum - and had some fun reads. But I can't find it anywhere. I have a vague notion that Goldwings were also mentioned but may be wrong. I also came across a thread where one of your members recommended fitting, and tightening the rear wheel with the bolts to the swing arm loose, and then tightening them after the wheel. But I would like to find the original source and hope someone can help

ps. I love the 'where Iv'e been sigs' and if they did one of Europe I could start to impress. I contacted the guy who makes them and he said he would try to get round to doing it. But I can't even remember what his site was now
 
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Howdy. :welcome1: from Texas (again).

"I also came across a thread where one of your members recommended fitting, and tightening the rear wheel with the bolts to the swing arm loose, and then tightening them after the wheel. But I would like to find the original source and hope someone can help"

Because I do not and never had an ST or NT, I cannot really help. The above bold section does describe (in basic) the procedure for installing the rear wheel on a Yamaha FJR1300.

Quick internet search for "replacing rear wheel st-1300":http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?51824-ST1300-Reinstalling-Rear-Wheel
 
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That is kinda standard for shaft drive bikes. Axle first. Then pinch bolts.

There is also a specific sequence for when the final drive is reinstalled to the bike.
 
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The for-mentioned procedure was published in the Honda ST1100 repair/maint. manual and also in the ST1300 repair /maint manual. It is also stated in my old VT1100C Honda service manual. (that I still have) I have done this procedure whenever the rear final drive on any of my bikes has been removed. Also on my new FJR when I pulled it apart to lube the drive draft/ u-joint components..If there is a question with the alignment of said final drive, it would not hurt to do the alignment procedure. Not difficult, just hard to get a torque wrench on the inner most nut. Don,'t remember if it is in the NT700 manual or not, as I also don't have a NT700 any more.
 
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DirtFlier

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[...It was related to poor manufacturer assembly of the final drive to the swing arm, and recommended a bolt tightening procedure... I have a vague notion that Goldwings were also mentioned but may be wrong...]

It was a problem with some of the 1982 V4s and perhaps some Wings? What hurt the Wings more was the introduction of high mileage rear tires so applying Moly 60 to the splines became way too infrequent. By 1990, those specific sequences of bolt tightening were removed from the service manual.

If I were to remove the final drive, I would tighten the axle nut first but I've never done it for normal tire changes and
have not had a problem.
 

JQL

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A large number of posts were deleted from this forum when one of the members requested to be de-registered and his posts removed. The post you're looking for could have been part of those...
 

DirtFlier

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[...one of the members requested to be de-registered and his posts removed..]

Was there a formal ceremony on the parade field where they tore off his epaluettes and broke his sword?:rofl1:
 
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JQL

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Being truthful, it seems that no one (apart from the Mods) noticed his departure for about a month or so...

Now that is worrying.
 
OP
OP

posi

Guest
Thanks for the replies guys. In my frantic hunt for posts the fact forum is titled 'NT' went straight over my head - I glibly translated that to NT700V, which is what I have now. When I signed up I had an NT650V so still qualified I hope. I would put it in my sig, but it may be something else if I continue to post as often :D Shame about the previous member
 
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The NT700 service manual (Chapter 14) states that, after applying 1g. of molybdenum disulfide grease to the universal joint side splines of the drive shaft, "Insert the final drive assembly into the swingarm and align the drive shaft splines with the universal joint splines." then install the gear case mounting nuts and tighten them in a crisscross pattern in several steps. Final torque is listed as 64 N-m (6.5 kgf-m, 47lb-ft).

Then install the rear wheel, tightening the axle nut first. Make sure to put more moly grease on the joint surface of the final gear case, the o-ring guide and the driven flange.

BTW, the money I spent on the service manual was saved many times over during the time I had my NT...it's a wise investment!

Good luck,
 
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The NT700 service manual (Chapter 14) states that, after applying 1g. of molybdenum disulfide grease to the universal joint side splines of the drive shaft, "Insert the final drive assembly into the swingarm and align the drive shaft splines with the universal joint splines." then install the gear case mounting nuts and tighten them in a crisscross pattern in several steps. Final torque is listed as 64 N-m (6.5 kgf-m, 47lb-ft).

Then install the rear wheel, tightening the axle nut first. Make sure to put more moly grease on the joint surface of the final gear case, the o-ring guide and the driven flange.
I came here specifically to note that no special final drive tightening sequence is stated in the NT700V service manual. This flies in the face of my CX500 and CX650 Turbo manuals. In it they state if the final drive is ever removed, the correct procedure to ensure proper alignment of final drive splines with wheel driven splines is as follows: Leave final drive case nuts slightly loose, so the drive can "float" on the swing arm. Torque the axle bolt, then the pinch bolt. lastly, torque the final drive case nuts. Failure to do this would likely cause rapid wear of final drive splines. But I noted no such instructions for the NT700V. Is it possible some of these bikes left the assembly line with an alignment problem, causing rapid wear? Why would Honda not included this final drive tightening sequence in the NT700V service manual? Alignment is alignment, so it would seem all shaft drive bikes should undergo this tightening sequence.

Regarding Moly 60 paste ... My Honda shop here in CA says that to be CARB compliant, it has been reformulated as M-77. The cost for an alarmingly small tube is $22. I have always used Sta-Lube's Moly-Graph grease on splines. Says it has molybdenum disulfide, just like the Moly 60 (M-77). Is this essentially the same stuff? $5 gets a big tub that lasts for years.
 
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Moly 60 is 60% moly.

Some moly greases are only 2% moly so it may be worthwhile trying to verify what moly content is in the Sta-Lube product

Seagrass
 
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Regarding Moly 60 paste ... My Honda shop here in CA says that to be CARB compliant, it has been reformulated as M-77. The cost for an alarmingly small tube is $22. I have always used Sta-Lube's Moly-Graph grease on splines. Says it has molybdenum disulfide, just like the Moly 60 (M-77). Is this essentially the same stuff? $5 gets a big tub that lasts for years.
I cannot find specs for the Moly-Graph grease, but at $5 a tub, the MoS2 content cannot be that high. I use Loctite 51048 on my FJR. Specs say it is 65% MoS2.
 
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All I can find on the Sta-Lube is it has a Timken rating of 40, whatever that means, and however it compares to Moly 60.

In any case, the new stuff that has superseded Moly 60 is called M-77, and it says it is "assembly paste" and does not specify a percentage of moly content. I don't even know if M-77 has the same properties after being reformulated for good ol' California.
 
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I bought a bottle of the Loctite 51048. I gather with it's high moly content, I will be using a lot less of it than the Sta-Lube I've used in the past. With 3000 miles on this bike, I am assuming the rear wheel has not been removed, so the grease there is original. Should I remove all traces of whatever grease is there before putting the Loctite moly paste on, or just apply over it? Also, I discovered an awesome use for the moly paste somewhere else on the NT700, but that's for another thread.
 
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The correct way would be to clean off all the old grease. That way all the metal wear particles get cleaned out of there.
With that said I give mine a quick wipedown and then add the new moly.

Brad
 
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