It just would not start part 2

Lorien · May 13, 2015

OK so I took it to the dealer and they put there code reader into the bike and then what happened is unclear but they never could tell me exactly what the problem was but only that they could not replicate it after much bench testing. So I take it home and it works just fine for a month and then yesterday it does it again. This time I am ready and get the code off the trouble light which is one long and nine short. This via the shop manual is a CPK sensor problem. Good except that I don't have a clue what that stands for and have yet to find it in the shop manual. Oddly enough I can't seem to get a look at it after taking the middle cowl lid off and taking the middle cowl is going to have to wait-maybe forever. The Question is: What does CPK stand for? For sure when it malfunctions it turns the fuel injection off which appears to be a fail safe mode to prevent a catastrophic failure if I understand the shop manual. Not very reassuring that it is intermittent. Wonder if it has anything to do with what I sometime believe is an engine knock that I think I hear between 4-4.5k rpm. I had put it off to something I just thought I was hearing and was an eccentricity of the NT that I was over noticing.
Thanks for any info.

RedLdr1 · May 13, 2015

I think you mean CKP not CPK... Anyway, CKP = Crankshaft Position Sensor Do a search on the site for that as others have had this problem...

Warren · May 13, 2015

I believe Honda calls it a Pulse Generator. Its part number is 30300-MEW-921

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/2010/NT700VA+AC/PULSE+GENERATOR+++STARTING+CLUTCH/parts.html

dlb · May 13, 2015

Last year I got a MIL19 a couple of times when the bike was hot..... I checked the CKP with a peak voltage adapter, it tested ok. I ended up moving the CKP wires as far away from the cylinder as possible; haven't had a recurrence of the problem since.

DirtFlier · May 13, 2015

[I ended up moving the CKP wires as far away from the cylinder as possible; haven't had a recurrence of the problem since.]

That's a little chancy for me so I replaced the CKP. Intermittent failures are tough to pin down.

dnktng · May 13, 2015

In the service manual the connector for the CKP sensor is shown on page 6-11. The good picture and replacement procedure for the CKP sensor is on page 11-12. Finding the grommet is the key to locating both the sensor and the connector, and the best picture for that is on the top of page 11-12. Just follow the wires from the the grommet and you'll find the connector. The sensor is inside the right crankcase cover. How to check the CKP sensor is on page 6-32.

It may be worth your time to clean the CKP sensor connector once and see if your problems stop. If the problem continues, replacing the CKP sensor is most likely needed.

There are a quite a few people who have have a code 1-9 CKP sensor fault, and several people have replaced the CKP sensor. So if you decide to replace there should be plenty of help if needed.

Macka · May 14, 2015

I had intermittant starting problems when hot for about a year and it would log code 19 each time. Allow it to cool for a little while and it would be fine again so I did not do anything about it except for changing the plug lead ends. This was an easy and cheap "try" but it made no difference.
More recently the fault changed. It would be difficult to start hot as before but would actually start and run on one cylinder below 1/4 throttle and stall every time the throttle was closed. Above that it would run normally and have great power. It would NOT log any fault code. When cool it would run perfectly.
I replaced the Crank Angle Sensor (CKP) and it has not missed a beat for 4000km.

Macka

seagrass · May 14, 2015

Definitely a crank position sensor as already mentioned. This is one of the few problems that members have had and has been fixed by others by replacing the sensor. Of course it could have been a bad connection as others have mentioned.

The engine needs the pulse from the crank position sensor to know when to supply spark etc so if there is no signal the engine will not start.

DirtFlier · May 14, 2015

The connector for the crank position sensor is under the plastic skin so fairly protected from water & road grime.

Lorien · May 14, 2015

dnktng said:
In the service manual the connector for the CKP sensor is shown on page 6-11. The good picture and replacement procedure for the CKP sensor is on page 11-12. Finding the grommet is the key to locating both the sensor and the connector, and the best picture for that is on the top of page 11-12. Just follow the wires from the the grommet and you'll find the connector. The sensor is inside the right crankcase cover. How to check the CKP sensor is on page 6-32.

It may be worth your time to clean the CKP sensor connector once and see if your problems stop. If the problem continues, replacing the CKP sensor is most likely needed.

There are a quite a few people who have have a code 1-9 CKP sensor fault, and several people have replaced the CKP sensor. So if you decide to replace there should be plenty of help if needed.

Thanks for the references. I would have never found the engine diagram. This does not look like a repair I would attempt except for the connector which I can't seem to get at simply. Oddly enough the engine started when I shifted the tranny out of neutral and then back in. I did not think this helped when it occurred earlier .

Brillot2000 · May 8, 2018

Macka said:
I had intermittent starting problems when hot for about a year and it would log code 19 each time. Allow it to cool for a little while and it would be fine again so I did not do anything about it except for changing the plug lead ends. This was an easy and cheap "try" but it made no difference.
More recently the fault changed. It would be difficult to start hot as before but would actually start and run on one cylinder below 1/4 throttle and stall every time the throttle was closed. Above that, it would run normally and have great power. It would NOT log any fault code. When cool it would run perfectly.
I replaced the Crank Angle Sensor (CKP) and it has not missed a beat for 4000km.

Macka

Well, I am the most recent victim of this issue. However, it happened intermittently 2 times before and the bike started after cycling power off and on. Not enough times to make a connection to anything. :shrug2:

I went to my doctor's appointment directly after work the bike ran great. After being in there for about 30 minutes and it would not start after multiple attempts. NaTalie did not want any of it. I had to call AAA to tow me home.

I ran the battery down trying to crank the bike over. I put NaTalie on the battery charger for a couple of hours. She fired up on the first attempt. This confirms that Crankshaft Position Sensor is the issue when it gets hot.

Nowhere in the microfiche as Crankshaft Position Sensor listed in the entire album. :mad1: After reading this and other threads on this topic the proper name for this part is Pulse Generator (30300-MEW-921).

I am now debating if I want to tackle this task myself or have the dealer do it for me. NaTalie is almost ready for her 24k service, which I want to get a valve adjustment done under my ownership. I noticed that cylinder cover gaskets have been seeping oil and want to get that taken care of at the same time.

I will give my dealer a call tomorrow to get an estimate on the 24k service and possibly having the Pulse Generator replaced at the same time. :drool1:

NaTalie should be fine for time being if I do not stop anywhere for any short lengths of time.

DirtFlier · May 9, 2018

The worst part of the job is relatively minor - the clutch cover & muffler must be removed to get at the crank position sensor since it lives inside the cover.
I also had to loosen the head pipe nuts at the cylinder head flange to get enough clearance for the clutch cover to clear.

In this photo you can see it at around 2 o'clock in the photo. It is the small black box adjacent to the reluctor (toothed wheel) that is bolted to the crank.

Brillot2000 · May 9, 2018

DirtFlier said:
The worst part of the job is relatively minor - the clutch cover & muffler must be removed to get at the crank position sensor since it lives inside the cover.
I also had to loosen the head pipe nuts at the cylinder head flange to get enough clearance for the clutch cover to clear.

In this photo, you can see it at around 2 o'clock in the photo. It is the small black box adjacent to the reluctor (toothed wheel) that is bolted to the crank.

The Crank Position Sensor looks a lot like the Pulse Generator used on my 1987 Honda XL600R.

The job does not look that difficult to do. However, NaTalie is nearly due for her 24k service and I would like to the get the valves adjusted at the dealer. I could have the service done early and get the Pulse Generator replaced at the same time. This would be the first service since I got NaTalie.

The most frustrating thing was going through the entire microfiche several times and not finding anything labeled as a "Crank Position Sensor".