Is it possible to determine if pannier latches are getting ready to fail?

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Not another pannier latch thread! Well, yes. This is aimed at NT owners who still use the stock pannier latch set up, and especially those who have not yet disassembled the pannier assemblies and reinforced the plastic screw mounts for the latch plates with epoxy. (I am speaking of the latch assemblies on the bike, not in the lids.)

Dirtflier's recent post that he discovered all four plastic mounts on his friend's NT were broken off got me thinking.

Is it possible to determine whether the latches are getting ready to fail? (I am sure many of you are thinking, of course it is, they are all getting ready to fail!)

With the seat off, you can see a portion of the latch plate assemblies. Look behind the crossbar with the seat latch assembly, and you'll see the cables going into the latch plate assemblies on each side of the bike. The plates run along towards the front of the bike.

You cannot see the points where the mounting screws secure the plate assemblies to the plastic bolsters. However, my theory is that if these are starting to crack or give way, you may be able to see or feel the plate shift or move a bit as you operate the pannier release levers, or perhaps if you pull out on the closed lids a bit simulating a heavy load. My theory is that as one or two of the plastic mounts start to crack, the plates must begin shifting a bit, causing the other mounts to split and crack.

So if you observe the plates move at all, or can feel them move with a finger while you work the latches, the mounts are almost certainly starting to crack. What I can't say is, if there is no movement, that means the mounts are OK.

As always, perhaps this has already been covered in the forum, disproven, or whatever.

In that case, never mind.

And I just realized I should have posted this under the "saddlebags" topic. Sorry!
 
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I don't recall the mounts for the latches themselves being an issue. The catches in the lids, yes.

You will have a little warning, but, just a little, and only if you inspect them carefully. You should get a very small discoloration at the point of cracking. You'll probably need a magnifier to see it.

That's why I put external latches on mine and just used the factory ones as the 'lock' (I used non-locking latches).
 
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I had no warning that the failure was about to happen, a visual inspection of the posts on the inboard side is somewhere between difficult and impossable with the saddlebag mounted on the motorcycle.
 

JQL

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The only time I had a problem with my latches I did get advance warning. I shut the lid and it latched but it didn't feel right as it latched. Difficult to explain but like the latches caught as they were latching.

I went round to my dealer, we opened the lid and true enough it wouldn't close. He fixed it there and then in about 5 minutes FOC.
 

DirtFlier

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[Each side has its own character. The only charge I've found is the right side is easier to open since I've been using it more often.]

In my experience with 2 NTs, the left side is the first to fail because it gets opened/closed a lot more often. To wit: Yesterday after fixing the left side, I removed the right saddlebag from Deb's bike and the screws were still tight and towers unbroken.

I still need to make tapered alum spacers for the external latches since they were designed to fit on two mating, flat surfaces and the saddlebag lid curves away.
 
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I for one am glade to have them fail, not having to get a key out to open the things is a joy.
 

DirtFlier

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[would a piece of rubber trimmed to the latch footprint, work as a shim?]

I kind of doubt it because the mounting screw locations are towards the outside so tightening against a rubber shim may cause that portion to tip even more. I might use a thin piece of mounting tape (double-sticky) under the shim just to protect the paint.
 

DirtFlier

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In regards to the spacers to make both sides of the latch on the same plane, I made them from 3/8" alum flat stock, tapered to match the curvature of the lid. They were full thickness at the outside and tapered to around 1/16" on the inside (towards the other half of the latch). I didn't use anything soft such as a gasket under the spacer. Both sides of the latch are held in place with 6/32" machine screws and lock nuts.
 

Phil Tarman

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In regards to the spacers to make both sides of the latch on the same plane, I made them from 3/8" alum flat stock, tapered to match the curvature of the lid. They were full thickness at the outside and tapered to around 1/16" on the inside (towards the other half of the latch). I didn't use anything soft such as a gasket under the spacer. Both sides of the latch are held in place with 6/32" machine screws and lock nuts.
I'm going to be mounting the combination latches after I get back from Montana. I have no idea how to go about tapering aluminum flat stock. Any suggestions on where to get something like that done? Or how a total dweeb can do it himself?
 

DirtFlier

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I did the tapering with a combination of round & flat files, grinder, and belt sander at the end. I have no idea how much a machine shop would charge to make the spacers...if you could find one that would do such a small job.

After you mount the main portion of the latch to the saddlebag, you can measure to see how much dropoff needs compensation. I put blue masking tape on the lid, used a Sharpie to mark the perimeter of the other half of the latch, then measured vertically from that point. I made it so both the main and outer portions of the latch are on the same plane.

Don't you have the big lids? If so, they might require less of a taper on the spacer but that's only a guess on my part.
 

Phil Tarman

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Don't you have the big lids? If so, they might require less of a taper on the spacer but that's only a guess on my part.
I've got both standard and big lids and will mount the hasps on both sets of lids.
 

DirtFlier

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Phil - one thing to keep in mind is providing adequate clearance for the lever portion of the latch. It has to be lifted to release the hasp and you'll probably (?) install it under the passenger handrails. There isn't much meat on the sealing lip of the lid so that means the larger portion of the latch with the lever has to be mounted to the saddlebag body.
 

Phil Tarman

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Phil - one thing to keep in mind is providing adequate clearance for the lever portion of the latch. It has to be lifted to release the hasp and you'll probably (?) install it under the passenger handrails. There isn't much meat on the sealing lip of the lid so that means the larger portion of the latch with the lever has to be mounted to the saddlebag body.
I saw Doug's (Comanche's) latches in Spearfish and knew that. Now I'm worried about making the latches line up if the hasp has to be shimmed due to the curvature of the lid tops.
 

DirtFlier

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It's possible that the latches will still work without being shimmed but to me, that seemed less than ideal. On the latches Debbie bought, allowing it to be canted reduced the depth of how it latched.

Maybe others have had a positive experience with unshimmed latches?
 
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Phil Tarman

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Charlie, refresh my feeble mind -- what latches did you use?
 

DirtFlier

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What I installed on Debbie's bike were on the same page towards the bottom and I only used one per side. Case Locking Catch L-070A (black)
 
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I chose based on three things.

First, I did not want a locking latch. My experience with those is that a quick twist with a screwdriver will break them so I kept the original latches as the lock for the cases. This does assume that your factory latches are still working. Contrary to that is the material of the lids themselves. They are just simple plastic. If someone determined you had things of real value in there a pry bar would break the lids easily enough. I did consider a latch type where I could add a lock. The L-026 up higher on the page is typical of such a latch (although it is a lighter duty type).

Second, I did not want to have to worry about perfect alignment of the latch parts. Many of the latches on that site require a flat surface for good alignment. As some have noted the lids and fixed portion are not really flat enough, so shimming is required to get a good function.

Third, I wanted the latch to be a 'draw' type that would tighten up as it was latched. This was the primary purpose for me, to hold the lid shut and 'unload' the factory latches. I tend to 'stuff' my cases, which loads the latches and hinges.

There are better options available if you want to spend a little more. Try looking in the Grainger or McMaster Carr catalogs. Also look at some of the marine hardware sites.
 
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