Why do the pannier latch mounts break?

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Two years ago I disassembled my pannier latches, cleaned off the grease and relubed with dri slide, and have always been careful in closing the lids and never overloading them. Yesterday I stripped things down again and found three of the plastic mounting "posts" were broken into pieces, and three others were cracked, out of eight mounts (four on each side) for the latch plates.

I have ordered the Franzen combination latches (currently part number 1470-1) to bypass the stock locking system altogether.

But why are the mounts breaking? My theory is that the large plastic inner saddlebag assemblies flex a bit during operation. They are bolted to the frame in the front, and are under the grab rails along the top, but only screwed into the rear fender and taillight assembly in the back. And they are not very stiff at all. But the metal latch plates cannot flex. Its as if the latch plates have the unintended function of "stiffening" the plastic saddlebags. But the plastic mounts were not intended to handle this kind of stress. The greatest stress occurs at the weakest point -- the self-tapping screw holes.

If this theory is correct, lubing the latches and treating the bags carefully may help, but will not address the fundamental design flaw. The posts could eventually crack and break even if you never used the bags.
 
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Yep, you are correct. It is a horrible design. I would bet if they all failed within the warranty period then Honda would have corrected it a LONG time ago. But, they seem to hold up for a few years before they fail.

It is sad for a company who has made trunks and side cases for decades to come up with such a bad design.
 

DirtFlier

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Does the 1470-1 bridge the curvature where the lid meets the saddlebag without needing a tapered shim?
 
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Does the 1470-1 bridge the curvature where the lid meets the saddlebag without needing a tapered shim?
Does anyone have photos of the installation of these latches showing location? Mine are not broken, yet, but maybe adding these latches may protect from breakage. I just bought a 2010 NT and installed dual helmet locks under the top box, am installing my GPS. Next is the Throttle Miester.
 
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Pics or description do not indicate the size of the various locking drawbolts. Anyone have already used these? Which one? Two per side or one per side?
Winter lay up of my bike is coming soon. Time to make changes and upgrades.
 

DirtFlier

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[...am installing my GPS. Next is the Throttle Miester...]

I had a Throttlemeister in the 90s and loved it but it is pricey. Maybe you should look at something such as the Go-Cruise or Omni-Cruise? About half the price, or less, and seems to work just as well.
 

RedLdr1

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Has anyone tried running an external steel support strap between the front and rear hinge points? That might reduce some of the flexing and twisting that kills the mounts...
 
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Here is where I put the ones on mine. Those were the only two places where I could get my fingers underneath the plastic on the bike side.

latch 4.jpg
 
OP
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Pics or description do not indicate the size of the various locking drawbolts. Anyone have already used these? Which one? Two per side or one per side?
Winter lay up of my bike is coming soon. Time to make changes and upgrades.
I received the 1470-1 latches and they look like the old 1020 latches that Comanche used and described (with photos) in his post "Pannier Latch Solution" under the Saddlebags sub topic. It does not appear that Comanche used any shims under his latches. He used one per side.

The 1470-1 latches measure two inches long and 2 5/16 inches wide. The screw holes in the metal catch plate are 1 and 9/16 inch center to center. These are combination locks; Franzen also has a version with a small key lock.

All this said, I did not end up using the latches. Instead I ordered new Honda saddlebag inner sides, used epoxy to strengthen the screw mounts, and retained the stock lock and latch mechanism. At the end of the day I just wanted to have the stock set-up. The saddlebag sides cost about $250 for the pair including shipping from Partzilla. I have taken the saddlebags off before and so it was not a difficult job to replace them. I have my fingers crossed that the reinforced screw bolsters will last longer on this set than on the originals.

The best fix to retain the stock set-up is to epoxy lengths of threaded rod into the screw holes and use nuts rather than the original self-tapping screws. Hats off to Dirtflier for this solution. But I just tried to reinforce the plastic bolsters and used the screws.
 
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[...am installing my GPS. Next is the Throttle Miester...]

I had a Throttlemeister in the 90s and loved it but it is pricey. Maybe you should look at something such as the Go-Cruise or Omni-Cruise? About half the price, or less, and seems to work just as well.
I am transferring the Throttle Meister from my Kawasaki Concours 1400, it was on my Kawasaki Z750 before that. I really like how it works. By the way I am going to sell both Kawasakis and use the NT as my all-around bike.
 

RedLdr1

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Is that where the lids break, between the hinge points? Sorry, I am new to the NT?
No, they break, crack and crumble at the closing hardware mount points at the top of the lid. But if there is is a concern that the bag lids are being torqued and twisted a reinforcement between the bag lids front and rear hinge points might help by reducing the torsional forces. The area is almost flat and it should be fairly easy to add a exterior reinforcement. The sad reality is it is just a really poor design from Honda.
 
OP
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Is that where the lids break, between the hinge points? Sorry, I am new to the NT?
Bear, the main problem is where the latch mechanism on the bike attaches to the plastic inner saddlebag assemblies. On the attached parts diagram, part 6 is the saddle bag assembly. This is the inner part of the pannier and the black plastic surround under the side of the seat -- its all one piece. The "catch assembly" (part 3) is secured on the saddlebag inner lip by four self tapping screws (parts 24) into molded plastic "towers" on the saddlebag assembly. You can see part of this if you take the seat off and look under the edges of the seat area. Over time the plastic towers crack and break apart. Happens more quickly if you bang or over stuff the panniers. It can help if you disassemble and clean the " catch assemblies" and keep them lubed and operating smoothly. But I did all this and my plastic mounts still broke up. It is very hard to tell if they are breaking without disassembling the saddlebags and inspecting.

Once they start giving out, one symptom is that the latch mechanisms begin to shift when you try and use them; you may find one day you can't open the pannier. Its particularly troublesome if you can't open the left pannier because then you can't get the seat off. There are various strategies discussed in the saddlebag forum to strengthen the mounts, put in emergency release mechanisms, or bypass the entire system by using exterior clasps. Exterior clasps are the cheapest and most comprehensive fix, in my view. But again I like the stock set up -- when it works -- and am trying to preserve it.

Some riders remove the latch mechanism on the seat so if a problem develops, you can still remove the seat and get to the latch mechanism from the inside -- sort of.

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/2010/NT700V+AC/R.+SADDLEBAG/parts.html
 
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One further comment on the catch assembly mounts. One of the mounting holes is round, the other three are oval slots. Honda apparently intended the round hole to be the main position mount for the catches, and to allow the plastic towers under the other three oval mounts to "wiggle" a bit and thus reduce the stress. So someone was thinking about the flex problem, the solution just was not good enough.

If for any reason you disassemble the catch assemblies, when you reassemble them, make sure that the screws for the three oval holes are not torqued down too tightly -- the catch assembly is apparently intended to "float" a bit on these three plastic mounts.
 
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