Value?

Coyote Chris · Feb 4, 2018

junglejim said:
Absolutely!!!

I loved my NT in the 5 years and 55,000 miles I had it. It was the most comfortable motorcycle I've had, got great fuel economy, and was quite reliable. But I just couldn't resist 30 more hp and 100# less weight in a bike that handled a little better than the NT. Honda could have given the NT a little more power and shaved some weight off of it, but that would have raised the price of a motorcycle that never sold well in the first place. As much as I liked the NT I think Honda did the only thing they could by dropping the NT.

I realized the low value (price) of the NT when a dealer offered me $2,200 on trade for a new motorcycle. That started a discussion that ended in a bad way, but at least there was no blood on the floor. I fealt that was too low a price, but the sales manager really did know what he was doing. I didn't trade it in and never went back there and won't. The NT wasn't pristine, but it was a solid bike, adult ridden, never down, mostly highway miles, and tires at 50%. However there was probably some mud from Alaska that was caked in inaccessable places and held in by tar from road construction. I'm no good at cleaning motorcycles, but it wasn't nearly as bad as Rust-in Peace's.

Interesting discussion. First, price vs value. When I rode the Triumph 800, with the wire wheels, I would say that it handled great at low speeds, had gobs of power and was pretty much vibration free. One might argue that it was a bit squirrley (quick handleing) at freeway speeds but that is pretty subjective. It is not a cheep bike but I would say for me, the NT still has more value in that I dont need all that power, the NT really doesnt handle that bad at low speeds, and it is a very steady bike at speed, even in a crosswind. And I like all the touring features that come standard. Ref emotion. I didnt buy the NT due to emotion. I bought it due to the features it has that I like. I bought the FJR due to emotion. But I am glad I have both.

Now I am looking at mid displacement adventure tourers. And I am doing that because of emotion. I miss the days when I could ride to the Big Horn Mountains and ride the forest service roads and camp up in the high country and hike for a few days. I cant do that on a heavily loaded big bike anymore. I am too old and too weak and my balance isnt getting any better. I like the new BMW GS 750 with its low effort slipper clutch, variable expansion hard cases, new lower seat height with lots of seat options. It is ride by wire and has two (at least) riding modes. And my dealer says he is ordering every one they will give him with a center stand and upgraded options, like bag mounts. I dont like the fact that the bike may have put on a few lbs and the new engine is made in China (you tube vid rumor) The V-strom would probably do me well also and there are lots of aftermarket parts available. The triumph is a good bike and has cruise control but its not cheep either like the BMW and I am afraid the dealer might go under with the continued decline in motorcycle sales.

Dealers dont buy used bikes based on emotion. There idea of value is making money. And they arent going to sell many used NTs to kids who like to eat Tide packets.....

No matter. I am keeping my NT.....now who wants to come to the ralley?

Coyote Chris · Feb 4, 2018

karl said:
I had hung on to my bike when I bought a new one to do some cosmetic repairs to make it more saleable. What is left now is some make it pretty paint and trim work and the decision to just keep it was an easy one. No I don't really have the space for it and there are other factors that show it the door. I just love the bike. It is a friendly puppy ready to play. What not to love about that. For me the value is more than someone will pay me for it.

karl, I am confused. Did you sell it? My issue with my Concours C1000 was if I wanted to ride a big bike, I had the FJR. Medium bike? I had the NT. What I didnt have is the space and energy to take care of her and the money for the upkeep seemed a waste. It was worth way more than the $500 I sold her for to a friend of a friend but I knew this guy and my old Connie were meant to be....I never looked back.
Chris who wants his XV920RH back
http://tanshanomi.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Tr1-05.jpg

DirtFlier · Feb 4, 2018

I didn't realize the BMW 650GS had morphed into a 750 and even 850 but it makes sense. The main drawback with the original 650 was that it lacked steam on the highway and at 65-70 it was all done. Downshifting to pass a car mainly resulted in more engine noise and not much difference in speed!

My NT's suspension and seat are 100% comfy for me plus I have the MC (Australian-made) cruise control so that makes it great when having to cover lots of miles on the slab. No, I don't look forward to riding on the slab but sometimes it's necessary to make time/distance in one day. I've fired up the engine twice in the last month and let it run for 10-15 min each time. The tank is filled with summer gas and it doesn't like the freezing temps in my garage. :shrug2:

ps. you could buy a WeeStrom and kit it out with your choice of ADV stuff and still be thousands and thousands ahead of buying a BMW.

Coyote Chris · Feb 4, 2018

DirtFlier said:
I didn't realize the BMW 650GS had morphed into a 750 and even 850 but it makes sense. The main drawback with the original 650 was that it lacked steam on the highway and at 65-70 it was all done. Downshifting to pass a car mainly resulted in more engine noise and not much difference in speed!

My NT's suspension and seat are 100% comfy for me plus I have the MC (Australian-made) cruise control so that makes it great when having to cover lots of miles on the slab. No, I don't look forward to riding on the slab but sometimes it's necessary to make time/distance in one day. I've fired up the engine twice in the last month and let it run for 10-15 min each time. The tank is filled with summer gas and it doesn't like the freezing temps in my garage.

ps. you could buy a WeeStrom and kit it out with your choice of ADV stuff and still be thousands and thousands ahead of buying a BMW.

Correct. I could kit out a WeeStrom and that is not off the table. The old F700, really an 800, has an engine that while not bad, does have two vibration ranges. That engine has been given the heave ho into the hole of history and the new engine, really an 850- 900, went back to counterbalancers and is SUPPOSED to be smooth. Cant wait for a road test.
The plus things about the BMW are that it is future technology. Ride by wire with two throttle response positions. Not the jerky throttle response of the 800. It has an easy on the hand slipper clutch too and I look for cruise control by 2019-20.
Suzuki has to realize that not everyone is 6 ft 13 inches high and there is no real reason for that tall of a seat height. The low gas tank of the BMW should also give better low speed charactoristics. The BMW luggage is brilliant. One lever pull and you go from standard sized nt bags to Big Lids.

BMW AND TRIUMPH realize that not everyone is 8 ft tall and that women are riding motorcycles. That is why they have multiple height bikes with multiple height seats. Just the thing for old men and younger women to go touring on.
One thing I have learned in life. I would rather pay $3000 more for a bike and be very happy with the bike than pay loads less for a compromise bike with less features that I admire.
I paid 10k for my leftover NT. More than many did.....I dont regret it a bit.....darned fine bike.....

Sojourner · Feb 4, 2018

I didn't realize that BMW had the 750/850 coming out. Thanks for giving me something more to google!

Slipper clutch and light clutch lever action and fewer vibrations I like. I liked the under-seat tank, but I guess the question is whatcha gonna do with the space where a tank normally is anyway. Only Honda with the NC700X has done something useful with that space.

The Vstrom is getting a little long in the tooth. Starting to become the next KLR650.

RedNigel · Feb 4, 2018

I think the faux gas tank on the BMW is where the airbox is

Coyote Chris · Feb 4, 2018

Sojourner said:
I didn't realize that BMW had the 750/850 coming out. Thanks for giving me something more to google! Slipper clutch and light clutch lever action and fewer vibrations I like. I liked the under-seat tank, but I guess the question is whatcha gonna do with the space where a tank normally is anyway. Only Honda with the NC700X has done something useful with that space.

The Vstrom is getting a little long in the tooth. Starting to become the next KLR650.

The 700/800 GSs / GTs had a side the seat filler. The gas gage only started to work once the tank was partly empty. I believe they have taken care of that. They listened. When I go to BMW ralleys, I see alot more women riding BMWs than the NT rallys. I think BMW is sensitive to the fact that there is a market for bikes under 1,000 ccs. Light bikes with low center of gravities (the 2018 GS 750 moved the gastank a bit forward but not UP) are meaningful.
Here are some interesting videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pab6NdrFn-c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELM6qoD0lzY

Note that in the next vid a BMW rep says Cruise control is an option. (2 min 30 seconds. Am I right?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbY4Q4aQQLg

Here is an interview with the BMW GS 850 project manager. Is it wrong to lust?
40 percent of the GS 700 riders were women.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y66K55B537U

DirtFlier · Feb 5, 2018

[...When I go to BMW ralleys, I see alot more women riding BMWs than the NT rallys...]

Chris - as far as I know, there are only two NT gatherings and I'd hardly call either one a rally!

In ref to women riders, BMW has listened. For the original F650 they offered both lowered suspension and a thinner seat. I asked Honda staff about making such options available for the NT and my request fell on deaf ears. :shrug2:

it's been a while since I've been on an overseas tour but I took a lot of them between 2005 and 2013, sometimes twice a year, and always rode the least expensive model offered by the tour company so it was always a BMW 650 or 700 and for anything larger, you had to pay extra. What I didn't like about the early 650s was the primitive feel to the switchgear and on the later ones, the engine would often die just after starting across an intersection...yikes! It sort of felt like a weird flatspot in the ignition/fuel injection programming but that's only a guess. I talked to other friends and they had the same experience.

karl · Feb 5, 2018

Coyote Chris said:
karl, I am confused. Did you sell it? My issue with my Concours C1000 was if I wanted to ride a big bike, I had the FJR. Medium bike? I had the NT. What I didnt have is the space and energy to take care of her and the money for the upkeep seemed a waste. It was worth way more than the $500 I sold her for to a friend of a friend but I knew this guy and my old Connie were meant to be....I never looked back.
Chris who wants his XV920RH back
http://tanshanomi.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Tr1-05.jpg

No, Still have it and even got to ride it once last month.

Miairhead · Feb 5, 2018

I really like ads where they list "vested $xx,xxx" in some object they are trying to sell. I sure hope when I invest it would be I don't say I invested this much and know it worth one 1/3rd of my investment.

Coyote Chris · Feb 6, 2018

DirtFlier said:
[...When I go to BMW ralleys, I see alot more women riding BMWs than the NT rallys...]

Chris - as far as I know, there are only two NT gatherings and I'd hardly call either one a rally!

In ref to women riders, BMW has listened. For the original F650 they offered both lowered suspension and a thinner seat. I asked Honda staff about making such options available for the NT and my request fell on deaf ears.

it's been a while since I've been on an overseas tour but I took a lot of them between 2005 and 2013, sometimes twice a year, and always rode the least expensive model offered by the tour company so it was always a BMW 650 or 700 and for anything larger, you had to pay extra. What I didn't like about the early 650s was the primitive feel to the switchgear and on the later ones, the engine would often die just after starting across an intersection...yikes! It sort of felt like a weird flatspot in the ignition/fuel injection programming but that's only a guess. I talked to other friends and they had the same experience.

OUCH! NOT a rally? Those of us that ACTUALLY GO thinks its a rally. Check this out.
http://www.nt-owners.org/forums/showthread.php?11350-8th-Nat-l-NT-Rally-June-27-30-2018

I think I have seen 650s at BMW rallys. I first noticed the midsized BMWs when they came out with the 800s. Now the engine is an 852 cc to be exact. The weight creep is disturbing and I think the project manager in the vids probably gave reasonable ideas why the weight creeped. I think the lower CG and new lower seat Heights probably are bigger factors for manuverability at slow speeds.

I like the fact that BMW does seem to do improvements to a product line that is successful. And BMW seems to have an idea I wont discount that if Dad is riding a 1200 BMW, and Mom wants to ride but would rather have something lighter, what's wrong with putting out a bike she can hold up and manourver? I predict that BMW is going to do very well with this new bike. I dont know if I will use all that conectivity but the screen that self dims and that is visable and bright from a wide angle seems nice.

I think BMW did address many of the EFI issues and the sudden throttles of the 800 series. BMW is not perfect but they at least seem to listen to the market....

DirtFlier · Feb 6, 2018

Oops, I didn't mean to slight the Spearfish event but isn't it really a combined event with ST11/ST13 riders? And I'm not saying there is anything wrong with a combined event because headcount is a necessary part of any gathering. Perhaps my idea of a "rally" has hundreds of bikes attending which would require every NT every sold in the US to show up at one place on a certain date? I guess it's just semantics on my part.

Well, whatever you want to call it, you guys have fun at Spearfish and that's the important part.

Coyote Chris · Feb 6, 2018

DirtFlier said:
Oops, I didn't mean to slight the Spearfish event but isn't it really a combined event with ST11/ST13 riders? And I'm not saying there is anything wrong with a combined event because headcount is a necessary part of any gathering. Perhaps my idea of a "rally" has hundreds of bikes attending which would require every NT every sold in the US to show up at one place on a certain date? I guess it's just semantics on my part.

Well, whatever you want to call it, you guys have fun at Spearfish and that's the important part.

You are forgiven! We will cancel the excumunication cerimony for you (using tiki torches) at Spearfish.

Yes, there are ST owners there, but unfortunately, there are fewer and fewer of all of us each year....but we still have lots of fun there and I get my "value" out of the event for sure...
Come for the bike, stay for the people. So many wonderful days and nights we have had over the years!
We miss you, Nicole...where ever you are....

DirtFlier · Feb 6, 2018

Your "fewer and fewer" phrase could be used for any type & brand of motorcycle gathering as the population of motorcycle riders age towards becoming non-riders. :shrug2:

Brillot2000 · Feb 6, 2018

DirtFlier said:
Your "fewer and fewer" phrase could be used for any type & brand of motorcycle gathering as the population of motorcycle riders age towards becoming non-riders.

That phrase could also be used to describe riders that have gone to the great highway in the sky. :angdev1:

Phil Tarman · Feb 6, 2018

DirtFlier said:
Oops, I didn't mean to slight the Spearfish event but isn't it really a combined event with ST11/ST13 riders? And I'm not saying there is anything wrong with a combined event because headcount is a necessary part of any gathering. Perhaps my idea of a "rally" has hundreds of bikes attending which would require every NT every sold in the US to show up at one place on a certain date? I guess it's just semantics on my part.

Well, whatever you want to call it, you guys have fun at Spearfish and that's the important part.

DirtFlier, I've been thinking about the difference between our NT/ST-Owners Rally in Spearfish and the much bigger MSTA Rally I attended in Colorado Springs last summer. I guess it depends a lot on expectations, but for me, our Spearfish Rally is the better of the two kinds of events. I like the unorganized spontaneity of Spearfish and the chance to sit around and talk with folks. Maybe it was me, but at the MSTA Rally, I never felt the opportunity to make the kind of lasting friends I've made at Spearfish. Most of the folks there seemed to have already made their friendships and groups were hard to get into for a newbie.

I'll probably give MSTA's STAR Rally another chance, but not this year. I'm going to another NT-Owners "mini-rally" in WV instead of La Crosse.

Macka · Feb 7, 2018

Phil Tarman said:
I'll probably give MSTA's STAR Rally another chance, but not this year. I'm going to another NT-Owners "mini-rally" in WV instead of La Crosse.

I almost always go to my own Mini-Rally, Phil. Whichever Rally I go to I am always the only NT rider there, with only two exceptions. By that I mean that I have only ever seen two other NTs at a Rally, one black and one red although not at the same Rally.

Macka

Coyote Chris · Feb 7, 2018

karl said:
No, Still have it and even got to ride it once last month.

"Like!" Liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiike

Coyote Chris · Feb 7, 2018

Phil Tarman said:
DirtFlier, I've been thinking about the difference between our NT/ST-Owners Rally in Spearfish and the much bigger MSTA Rally I attended in Colorado Springs last summer. I guess it depends a lot on expectations, but for me, our Spearfish Rally is the better of the two kinds of events. I like the unorganized spontaneity of Spearfish and the chance to sit around and talk with folks. Maybe it was me, but at the MSTA Rally, I never felt the opportunity to make the kind of lasting friends I've made at Spearfish. Most of the folks there seemed to have already made their friendships and groups were hard to get into for a newbie. .

"Like" LIKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKE.
I agree though I have attended some nice mini BMW rallys, and they were populated by some interesting people, but it seems my long lasting buds I want to see are at Spearfish.....

gr8bond007 · Feb 12, 2018

I have 92,000 on my NT700 and saw one on San Antonio Tx Craiglist and called. It had 1.500 miles and they were asking $4,500 for it. I offer $4000 and the sells manager told me no. Three weeks later it sold but I don't know what they got for it. They have a red one with 35.000 miles and are asking $3500 for it.

Value?

gr8bond007

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