Battery Died

[Warren]

I purchased my NT700V in the summer of 2010.
I ride it as my daily commuter, 52 weeks a year.
It is parked outside under a motorcycle cover both at home and at work. It sees temperatures from 5?F-105F?.
Since I ride it every day it never gets put on a battery tender. I rely on the NT's charging system to keep it charged. In December of 2013 it failed to start one cold morning. Since the battery was now 3.5 years old I replaced it with a Yuasa (Motocross) private label battery from BatteryStuff.com. The battery is made by Yuasa in Japan. It cost $121 and was shipped freight free.
The battery appeared to be exactly like the OEM battery.
It is now 2.5 years later and it failed to start my NT this morning. I noticed for the last few days while it started the NT it seemed like it was struggling. I check the voltage and it was at 12.5V. I was going to put it on my tender this weekend but it did not make it. I will probably put it on the tender to see what the voltage gets up to. A good AGM should be 2.8-13.0V. Regardless of what it measures I decided to order a new battery anyway. As unsure as I am about the quality and life of Chinese batteries I decided this time around to go with a Scorpion China produced battery for $59.95 from BatteryStuff.com. It is 1/2 the price of the Motocross battery. I suspect the high heat we have been having took the life out of the Motocross battery. Last winter was also the first winter I started using electric heated gear and that might have also put some stress on it.
I will update this post on the results of putting the old battery on the tender and how the new battery measures up. Will also check the charging system to see that it is putting out enough voltage.

 

[banjoboy]

Thanks Warren. I replaced my OEM battery almost three years ago, partly as a precaution and now I will probably have it replaced at the next service of the bike.

Terry

 

[Macka]

My NT, built in December '08 still has the original battery and it is working well after 7 1/2 years.
While it is possible, I am quite surprised that a Japanese built battery failed after 2 1/2 years.
Charging system problems on our bikes are not unheard of so just make sure that you are still getting near enough to 14 volts at idle.
My voltage fluctuates quite a lot, it always has, but I have never had a battery problem.

Macka

 

[Coyote Chris]

Personally, I shy away from cheep batteries. The battery voltage may tell you if you have a bad battery, but it cant tell you if you have a good battery. A load test on a fully charged battery is the best indicator of battery health.
The charge system on the NT, at idle should make the battery read 13.5- 14.2 and once the bike is brought off of idle, you should see a steady 14.2- 14.5. A quality battery should last 3-5 years easy. I replaced my original battery that
was in the bike since 2010 at least this year as a precaution. I used the exact replacement. It will probably outlive me....
The Yuasa on a tender should read 13.8-14.2 depending on the tender.....but that tells you nothing about the internal resistance of the battery. BTW, many battery problems are really terminal corrosion problems all the way to the starter.
I worked on cop cars for 30 years....I had a load tester and an O-scope and a voltmeter and I could pretty well check out the charging system and battery. The best way to kill a lead acid battery is to let it run down and leave it that way.

 

[Nordakoda]

I purchased a new 2010 in 2013. The bike had sat in the dealers warehouse for three years. The battery from day one would take but not hold a charge. Replaced it with a Battery Tender lithium. The lithium battery is smaller than the original but turns the engine over faster.

 

[Coyote Chris]

I purchased a new 2010 in 2013. The bike had sat in the dealers warehouse for three years. The battery from day one would take but not hold a charge. Replaced it with a Battery Tender lithium. The lithium battery is smaller than the original but turns the engine over faster.

Nothing wrong with a quality Lithium Ion battery (remember hover boards?). Good energy density. I dont know much about how long they last.

 

[Nordakoda]

What I installed was a lithium-iron (LiFePO4) not a lithium-ion. There is a difference. The lithium-iron battery has superior chemical and thermal stability. A Lithium-iron battery remains cool at room temperature while the Li-ion may suffer thermal runaway and heats up faster under similar charging conditions. Also the lithium iron battery only weight 2 pounds compared to the 9 pounds of a lead battery. As far as how long they last. Battery Tender claims 5 times battery life and a 18 month shelf life. Meaning that a fully charged battery will hold a charge for 18 months not connected to anything.

 

[Macka]

I have read that Lithium batteries, I assume both types, have greatly reduced cranking capacity at low temperatures (below zero).
Likewise, they resist charging at low temperatures and need to be warmed up a bit before they will accept a charge.
I have never used one so I cannot say from experience.
Does anyone here know more?

Macka

 

[JQL]

Don't use a lithium-ion battery in any type of vehicle as they are a fire hazard.

I have a lithium-iron (LiFePO4) battery and, according to the blurb, there's zero risk of fire.

In cold weather the lithium-iron (LiFePO4) needs to be warmed up. I have noted that below about 1-2C (35F) is the point when the battery needs warming.

Warming is very easy on the NT700 just turn on the ignition and the headlight comes on automatically (EU models), leave the ignition on for about 30 - 45 seconds (the colder, the longer it needs warming). Cranks no problem and fires immediately. The trick I use is to check the lights are OK back and front which takes about 30 seconds.

 

[Macka]

Don't use a lithium-ion battery in any type of vehicle as they are a fire hazard.

I have a lithium-iron (LiFePO4) battery and, according to the blurb, there's zero risk of fire.

In cold weather the lithium-iron (LiFePO4) needs to be warmed up. I have noted that below about 1-2C (35F) is the point when the battery needs warming.

Warming is very easy on the NT700 just turn on the ignition and the headlight comes on automatically (EU models), leave the ignition on for about 30 - 45 seconds (the colder, the longer it needs warming). Cranks no problem and fires immediately. The trick I use is to check the lights are OK back and front which takes about 30 seconds.

John confirms what I have read elsewhere.
I have been happy with the AGM that I fitted to my Suzuki so I would probably go with the same when I need one for the Honda.

Macka

 

[Phil Tarman]

Back in the mid-70s when I was working in the oil field, I took a work-boat out to a drilling platform to trouble-shoot a degasser that we had installed for them. I thought I was going to have to wait a couple of days before the boat was ready to go back in and then I'd have another 12-hour boat ride, but after I finished fixing the degasser (it took me all of 20 minutes), the company man on the rig told me I could ride back on a helicopter that was bringing a man out. It got there, the guy got off, I got in, and we took off. I was riding left-seat and was looking at about an hour flight back to Cameron, Louisiana.

The chopper was a Hughes 500 (I think the Army called them OH-1s). We'd been flying maybe 15 minutes when a yellow light came on on top of the instrument panel. The pilot said, "Oops!" Just what you always want to hear! He started turning things off and turned around, heading back to the platform we'd come from. The light was a battery-overheat warning. He told me that by isolating the battery from all the systems in the helicopter, it might cool down. If it didn't, it could get into thermal runaway mode. That would be bad, because it could get so hot it would melt the structure around it. One of those structures was the seat I was sitting in! The seat never got warm, but I was slightly tense. About five minutes before we got back to the rig, the light went off.

He told me that we'd land, he'd top off the fuel and we'd go on back to the shore. We did, and everything worked out OK. My dad told me what kind of battery it was, since the Mitsubishi MU-2 he was flying then had the same kind and that battery overheat was indeed a bad deal -- but he'd never had it happen.

Wish I could remember what it was. I'm pretty sure it was long before Lithium-ion or Lithium-iron batteries were invented.

I'm like Macka; I've had good luck with the AGM batteries.

 

[Bear]

I still have the original battery in my 2010 NT. When the bike is not in use, it is in a heated garage and plugged in to a Battery Tender Jr. So far I have had no problems.

 

[Warren]

Update:
After my battery failed to start the NT last Friday morning I ordered a new battery. It should be here today.
In the meantime on Saturday I took the old battery out and checked the voltage. It measured 12.34 volts.
For grins I put it on my Battery Tender Plus. I was surprised that after about 30 minutes the solid green light came on meaning that it was fully charged. No way that could be correct so I took it off and it measured 12.74 volts. To get an accurate measurement you have to let the battery rest for 30-60 minutes. After an hour I checked it again and it was down to 12.55. I put it back on for about 8 hours.It still measured 12.55. I checked it again Sunday morning and it was down to 12.40 volts. For what ever reason it is not taking and holding an acceptable charge. Probably sulfated. When the new battery gets here I ill put it on the charger over night and install it tomorrow.

 

[ARKNT]

It might be interesting to see how the battery reacts with a load. It probably doesn't matter, you need a new one.
You might charge it, put it on the bike, turn on ignition (also headlight), then take voltage reading. If it will crank the starter, you might take voltages while it cranks. Of course this task is for people who are curious and have time to kill while waiting for the new battery to arrive.

Brad

 

[Warren]

Last Update
I ordered the new Scorpion battery on Friday and it arrived on Monday.
I checked the voltage out of the box and it was 12.56. I put it on the charger and before I went to bed it was up to 12.88. I decided to leave it on all night and through the next day until I returned from work. When I got home this evening I took it off the charger and it measured 13.11 so I installed it. The NT started instantly as expected. I checked the voltage to the battery while running and it as 14.1 which is in the acceptable range. Back to my daily commute tomorrow. Only time will tell what life I will get out of a $59.95 Chinese battery.

I was lucky that the old battery died while I was at home and not at work our on the road. Made me think about getting a jump pack for that type of situation. When I replaced the battery I was reminded how the positive terminal would be impossible to get a clamp on. Anyone ever jumped their NT battery?

 

[Phil Tarman]

I tried and couldn't get to the positive terminal. Macka (I think) had a great idea of having a positive cable with a rubber plug covering the wire to keep it from shorting out on the bike.

http://www.nt-owners.org/forums/showthread.php?10655-Dum(d)-de-dum(b)-Dum(b)-Dum(b)/page3

He ran it to the positive terminal on the starter, but, like Coyote Chris, I wonder if it would energize the fuel injection system that way. I'm thinking I'm going to do the same thing but attach it to the positive terminal on the battery unless Macka chimes in again and tells me why that's not a good idea.

 

[seagrass]

Electrons do not discriminate, a cable connected to the starter or battery positive will both work OK and energise the whole system.

Seagrass

 

[gbrand42]

As an aside to this, the battery in my Mercedes came with the car new in September 2004 and is still there to this day. Never been on a battery tender and is still quite happy to start the car after a couple of weeks idle.

I was thinking of replacing it when it got to 10 years old as I felt I was pushing my luck but what the heck, I'll just leave it there till it dies.

So is 12 years unusual for a car battery?

 

[Macka]

Electrons do not discriminate, a cable connected to the starter or battery positive will both work OK and energise the whole system.

Seagrass

As Seagrass says, there will be PLENTY of current getting back up the starter cable to the battery to power everything else.
The starter is by far the greatest current draw in the system so that is where the supply should always be greatest and is why all manufacturers try to keep starter cables as short as possible.
The EFI and ignition systems only require about 10 amps to run them so if the starter motor cable can get 150 amps to the starter one way it can surely get 10 amps to the battery the other way.
Of course you can connect an auxilliary cable to the battery positive but it is already a bit crowded up there and when your main battery is weak you want to eliminate as much resistance (cable length) as possible.

Macka