Electrical Problem?

[JQL]

I may have an electrical problem concerning the alternator and the Regulator/Rectifier. So, I'm looking for advice and/or reassurance.

Note: I have a SkyRich LiFePO4 battery on the bike which has it's own intelligent control system built in.

Problem:
The 3 core cable (3 yellow sheaths) which runs from the alternator (I think) to the Regulator/Rectifier is hot to the touch. You can hold it but it is hot enough to be very concerning. It takes about 30 seconds from start up before you feel the heat and after about 90 seconds it seems to reach maximum heat (hot enough to be concerning). I'll try to get an actual temperature reading later. The cable between the alternator and the 3 pin connector is slightly hotter than the cable from the 3 pin connector to the Regulator/Rectifier. The Regulator/Rectifier heat sink is cold to the touch. I have not checked the temperature of this cable ever before.

So far I have left the bike running for more than 3 or 4 minutes so can't say if it gets hotter or cools down later. I will take her for a run tomorrow (Monday 26th) to see if the cable stays warm or cools down after a while.

I have checked the connector and it is clean without obvious signs of corrosion or heat damage. I cleaned it with some electrical cleaner anyway and put a touch of electrolytic grease on the pins. This hasn't made any noticeable difference at all - the cable is still as hot!

Request:
Does anyone with knowledge of the charging system on the NT700 know about this problem? If you also have experience of LifePO4 batteries with built in charge controllers, that would also be helpful.

My thoughts are that the Lithium battery, with it's intelligent charge controller, is drawing maximum power after starting the bike which is causing the cables to run hot as there are no signs of heat damage to the cables or the connector. This is just conjecture on my part.

 

[Chucksklrst]

What is the voltage at the battery with bike running around 2000 rpm 14.2? does the regulator hold the voltage at around 14.6 when revved up to around 5000rpm. With a full battery what is the voltage drop to at bike startup? No less than 10 volts.

 

[ARKNT]

I don't have 1st hand experience with smart batteries but I doubt that is a problem.
The alternator uses permanent magnets and has no coil for excitation, therefore it puts out all it can all the time and the reg/rec sends any excess power to ground. You could overload it with heated gear or other accessories.
My NT got the 3 pin alternator connection corroded and one lead got warm there from the bad connection. Keep that high current connection clean and the dielectric grease is very good idea. As I recall when working on the connector I noticed the wires being warm also. I think it is normal but maybe others can chime in or check theirs for temperature. My guess is that the wires to the 3 pin are sized for just enough resistance to limit the current from the alternator coils. That small resistance generates heat.
As Chuck said check your voltages. The manual also has resistance checks that would be helpful for you.

Brad

 

[NewTo700V]

My thoughts are that the Lithium battery, with it's intelligent charge controller, is drawing maximum power after starting the bike which is causing the cables to run hot as there are no signs of heat damage to the cables or the connector. This is just conjecture on my part.

My understanding is the stator is going to put out an amount of watts per given engine RPM. The stator on the NT is rated at 438watts @ 5K RPM. Let's say you're cruising at 5K RPM, the stator is putting out 438 watts regardless of load. With minimal load, the regulator-rectifier is supposed to dump the excess power as heat by shunting to ground when it sees battery voltage is high enough. This is why it's somewhat counter intuitive when people think swapping to LEDs is helping out your bike. Unless there's a load to replace the swapped incandescents, it's just more heat the RR has to deal with.

If the load draw exceeds the capacity of the stator/RR, you'll simply start draining the battery.

The burning of wires I've always seen starts at that connector. Resistance=heat. I usually preemptively cut out the 3 yellow wire connectors and splice-solder. I've done this surgery on my other two bikes, but haven't yet on the NT.

 

[seagrass]

I do not have the relevant details for you for how hot the wires should be BUT I own two 1982 CX500’s (one a Turbo and one a Euro) and both of these have 200 watt Stators and they also suffer from these same three wires getting hot, to the point the connector can commonly get burnt if not kept clean.

The CX500’s use the same system where excess current is shunted to ground via the regulator/rectifier.

The three stator charging wires (three yellow wires) are insulated with high temp material as Honda knows they will get hot.

I suspect your NT700 is running as normal BUT I am following this topic to learn more.

Seagrass

 

[JQL]

What is the voltage at the battery with bike running around 2000 rpm 14.2? does the regulator hold the voltage at around 14.6 when revved up to around 5000rpm. With a full battery what is the voltage drop to at bike startup? No less than 10 volts.

As per usual, I was just doing some cleaning and fiddling about so didn't have either my thermometer or test meter in the garage with me. I'll test and report back either tomorrow (Monday 26th) or Tuesday (27th) depending on how my work day pans out...

 

[Brillot2000]

I may have an electrical problem concerning the alternator and the Regulator/Rectifier. So, I'm looking for advice and/or reassurance.

Note: I have a SkyRich LiFePO4 battery on the bike which has it's own intelligent control system built in.

Problem:
The 3 core cable (3 yellow sheaths) which runs from the alternator (I think) to the Regulator/Rectifier is hot to the touch. You can hold it but it is hot enough to be very concerning. It takes about 30 seconds from start up before you feel the heat and after about 90 seconds it seems to reach maximum heat (hot enough to be concerning). I'll try to get an actual temperature reading later. The cable between the alternator and the 3 pin connector is slightly hotter than the cable from the 3 pin connector to the Regulator/Rectifier. The Regulator/Rectifier heat sink is cold to the touch. I have not checked the temperature of this cable ever before.

So far I have left the bike running for more than 3 or 4 minutes so can't say if it gets hotter or cools down later. I will take her for a run tomorrow (Monday 26th) to see if the cable stays warm or cools down after a while.

I have checked the connector and it is clean without obvious signs of corrosion or heat damage. I cleaned it with some electrical cleaner anyway and put a touch of electrolytic grease on the pins. This hasn't made any noticeable difference at all - the cable is still as hot!

Request:
Does anyone with knowledge of the charging system on the NT700 know about this problem? If you also have experience of LifePO4 batteries with built in charge controllers, that would also be helpful.

My thoughts are that the Lithium battery, with it's intelligent charge controller, is drawing maximum power after starting the bike which is causing the cables to run hot as there are no signs of heat damage to the cables or the connector. This is just conjecture on my part.

The following is my professional recommendations for the issue that you have described.

The heat you are describing is due to a high impedance connection probably due to corrosion. Separate the connectors, clean the contacts with a contact cleaner such as CRC QD Electronic Contact Cleaner, see the image below.

You will need to coat/fill the female connector end with silicone dielectric grease before reconnecting the connectors, see image below.

I do not know the availability of the fore mentioned products in your country or area. These are the items that are used in my industry and in my profession.

I hope that you find this information useful and it addresses your issue. Otherwise, you will have to cut off the connectors, replace them with new ones, or connect the wires directly to each with butt splices.

 

[Brillot2000]

My thoughts are that the Lithium battery, with it's intelligent charge controller, is drawing maximum power after starting the bike which is causing the cables to run hot as there are no signs of heat damage to the cables or the connector. This is just conjecture on my part.

These batteries have what is called a BMS "Battery Management System" that actively monitors each battery cell and balance the voltage across each cell across the board. This is how the "Intelligent Charger Controller" works in this type of system.

The way electronics or any other electrical devices works is that it only supplies or takes only the needed power Watts (Watts=Voltage x Current) that is required for the load demand. In this case, your battery will either drain or source power. As I mentioned in my previous post, the heat across the connectors is due to a high impedance (Resistance) across the mating connector contacts for both connectors. Cleaning both connectors contacts and applying the dielectric grease should address this issue.

The stator coil is a Three-Phase coil assembly wired in a "Y" configuration.

Let me know if you have any further questions regarding these items.

 

[JQL]

As you may or may not know, France is back in Lock Down. So, I've spent the last few days preparing for that rather than working on the bikes (apart from topping off the tanks on their last ride home). They still need washing which is very unlike me but shows how busy I've been!

This weekend I'll try to get some work done on the bikes. There is a spanner in the works already as my partner's father's computer has a virus and I'll probably spend Saturday sorting that out.

 

[Macka]

I hope that it's not Corona Virus! it will have to go into isolation.

Macka