Error Code 19, CKP, Intermittent

[Papa Lou]

Third time occurrence of an intermittent no-start. It seems to happen, if it happens, when on the side stand. I get a no-start, strong turn-over of motor, then one long followed by nine short flashes (error code 19) of the MIL (engine problem light). I move the bike around the parking lot off the side stand, or put it up on the center stand, turn the key on-off a few times, then the MIL light goes out as normal and the motor starts normally.

The service manual says its a loose connection or sensor for the crank position indicator (CKP) that runs from left side sensor up the right side through a 2P connector (color = natural/tan, I think).

I'll probably run to hard failure unless someone has recommendations based on experience with the same or similar failure pattern. It's still under warranty, I think, and it's only a $50 part if it is the sensor itself. Wiring harness T/S & R/R, and of course plastic removal/replacement, will probably be the pricey parts.

Feedback anyone?

OBTW: It hasn't left me stranded yet. I simply outlast the intermittent nature of it so far. It's still better than most other bikes I've had over the years.

 

[dnktng]

No experience with any fault code. So FWIW....
Like you say, fault code 19 says CKP and says to check for loose or poor contact at CKP connector (as you describe) and the ECM connectors (2 of them, 33P each), then recheck the DTC for fault codes. If it was me and still under warranty, I'd at least have that done by dealer. If no warranty, I think it would be an easy disconnect & reconnect of connectors.....once all the plastic is removed. Then if the intermittent fault returns, continue TS&R. Love those intermittent electical faults.
Good Luck.

 

[Papa Lou]

Sounds like I'm heading along the same path you've offered. Thanks for the peer check/collaboration. I'll probably hold off until after the Leavenworth ride to get deep into the TS&R. I've been like a caged critter pacing back & forth between the walls of work and home all winter. A few hours saddle time is worth the risk of untimely hard fault.

 

[seagrass]

Papa Lou,

tawilke46 had a problem with his bike not starting when hot and he posted on April 7th 2012 that the dealer diagnosed the fault to be a faulty CKP.

I would be getting it back to the dealer and asking them to replace the CKP under warranty.

Seagrass

 

[tommyr]

I would agree with seagrass. I have a Jeep Cherokee & Grand Cherokee. They are known for CKP failure. Heat is the culprit a lot of times. A Jeep forum I was on said pour cold water on the CKP and then see if it starts up. Problem is, on this bike I can't find a picture of where it is in the service manual -- I think left side of rear cylinder, but not sure.(Pix of CMP, but not CKP) and I'm sure by the time you got the tupperware off to pour water on it, it would be cooled off already. Not that it's practical on a bike, but Jeepers who do a lot of off roading carry a spare...

 

[Papa Lou]

Several of your comments have put me on the path of getting it to the Honda dealership. Now that the Leavenworth ride has blown some cobwebs out of my winter-twisted psyche, I'll set up an appointment. Heck, while he's got all the Tupperware removed I'll have the mechanics do valve clearance, plugs, air cleaner, everything, along with preemptively replacing the "phase generator", which I believe is the crank position sensor (CKP). It's about $50 but that's cheap compared to me losing the CKP when I have 3 days to get to Ohio and I'm trying to make 800 miles a day, or so. I hate travelling on those cattle cars they call airplanes that the bosses always want me to take when the customer calls. So, yeah, it's worth $50 to me whether warranty work or not.

Thanks. It sounds like it is not a common problem for the NT, at least. That's good news all around.

 

[Cameron]

Had this issue last night when leaving work. Starter turned the engine over fine, but just wouldn't start. Tried twisting the throttle a few times and flicking the kill switch (had a previous issue with my PC800 that was a bad connection in the kill switch) and tried it again and it started right up. Same code - 19. A fellow motorcyclist thought it was perhaps just a clogged gas tank vent that was creating a vacuum. No problems on todays commute, but I'll be on the lookout. Nice to know I'm not alone, but I hope it doesn't turn out to be more widespread.

 

[Cameron]

While I did not get any code, I recently had an incident where after starting the bike and beginning to pull out of the parking space, the engine simply died. I hit the starter a couple of times and it would turn over, but not start. Hit the kill switch on and off a couple times and tried again and it fired right up. Interestingly, the clock had reset. I usually turn off the engine by using the kill switch, but have now changed to just turning off the key. I'll see if the problem returns.

 

[Cameron]

The gremlin has returned. On the home commute, I stopped to fill the empty gas tank, then completed the last 1.5 mile ride home. Turned the bike off with the key (rather than the kill switch) and put in on the sidestand. Returned about 10 minutes later and the bike would turn over strongly, but no start. Ambient temp was close to 50 degrees. The engine light lit and flashed 1-9. Turned the key off and on again to verify the fuel pump was operational, but still no start. Opened the gas tank to ensure no suction issue, but still no start. Even tried putting it in gear and rocking it a bit but still nothing. Pushed it into the garage and took the car to my meeting. Came out this morning and it started right up. This is becoming annoying.

 

[seagrass]

I am still thinking it is a crank position sensor failing.

From memory they are less than $50 so I would be paying the money for the peace of mind and reliability

 

[rocketman]

Had a similiar incident recently, once the engine turned over fine but no starting. Second time after a long ride when it had gotten pretty hot, turned key on and off several times before I heard the fuel pump start up and the bike would start. is this a user replaceable part? If so where is it located?

Thanks

RM

 

[bicyclist]

Jeff, it's located under the right engine cover in front of the clutch. Held in place with two bolts. Look at the front of the engine on the right side and you'll see a wire coming out and running up along the right frame member. If you lie on your back and shine a light up there, you'll see the connector. You'll have to remove the exhaust and probably the right side of the fairing to get at everything. There's no gasket under the cover. It's sealed with Three Bond. Yes, you can do it. It'll be a bit of work.

 

[rocketman]

Jeff, it's located under the right engine cover in front of the clutch. Held in place with two bolts. Look at the front of the engine on the right side and you'll see a wire coming out and running up along the right frame member. If you lie on your back and shine a light up there, you'll see the connector. You'll have to remove the exhaust and probably the right side of the fairing to get at everything. There's no gasket under the cover. It's sealed with Three Bond. Yes, you can do it. It'll be a bit of work.

Remove the exhaust? Is that before or after you have to saw the frame in half? :lol: Don't think I have any tree-bond, but i do have some Elmers wood glue...
think I may have to invest in a manual before I even think of digging into this bike's inards.

Thanks

RM