Nt700v fuel pump doesn't start- not obvious

[CafeGarage]

Hello everyone,
I've problem with deauville. After maintenance ( oil, coolant, filters, valves), bike will not start.
1. When maintenance was performed - battery was out from the bike,
2. Throttle body was unplugged, taken out,
3. After assembly - it cranks but there is no signal from fuel pump relay.
4. When making tests ( according to service manual)- ECU is being pointed as root cause.
5. Now interesting part - after unplugging MAP sensor, fuel pump starts. As far as I know - fuel cut can be done by hiss, kill switch, ECU?

6. Tests made
- continuity tests on wiring harness
- power on ECU,
- power on relays+ short wiring,
- I've tried peak voltage on map, but it's hard with pocket tester

Had anybody similar problem?
Is there possibly that map is a root cause? What else I can test before starting to order /not very cheap/parts?

 

[ARKNT]

Your Deauville is likely slightly different than the US NT's that we have here.
I would focus on rechecking any wiring and/or sensors that were unplugged for the maintenance.
Good luck.

Arknt

 

[CafeGarage]

Your Deauville is likely slightly different than the US NT's that we have here.
I would focus on rechecking any wiring and/or sensors that were unplugged for the maintenance.
Good luck.

Arknt

It was double-checked. There are differences ( but minor, hiss for example). Throttle body harness is stripped - that was my first idea to check every cable.
ECM have no errors ( after cranking at least 10s). Unplugging of MAP gives FI right a way. Because of Hiss I'm not able to swap ECM without copying EPROM or swapping keys and ECM.

 

[seagrass]

ECM’s rarely fail and this is unlikely to be your problem.

Does the fuel pump run as soon as you turn the key on (before cranking)?

Seagrass

 

[CafeGarage]

ECM’s rarely fail and this is unlikely to be your problem.

Does the fuel pump run as soon as you turn the key on (before cranking)?

Seagrass

After turning the key ( kill switch to run, side stand closed), there is no fuel pump action ( can't hear pump, relay click). I can crank it ( an there is a spark, just no fuel). After disconnecting MAP sensor - fuel pump starts to work ( I can start the bike). I can record it later if it's gonna help.

 

[CafeGarage]

Anybody have information what should be resistance values for MAP?
Acco

 

[mikesim]

That schematic you posted does not show the map sensor. I think you are saying that sensor tp is the map sensor. It is not. TP is the throttle position sensor located on the throttle body. The MAP sensor connector is a black 3p connector with a yellow/red, light green/yellow and green/orange wires. According to the service manual, a MAP sensor failure will not prevent the engine from starting and running. The TP throttle position sensor connector is also a 3p connector but is blue with yellow/red, green/orange and red/yellow wires. Make sure these connectors aren't reversed. The connectors are adjacent to each other so this mistake is easily done.

Hope this info helps!

Mike

 

[CafeGarage]

That schematic you posted does not show the map sensor. I think you are saying that sensor tp is the map sensor. It is not. TP is the throttle position sensor located on the throttle body. The MAP sensor connector is a black 3p connector with a yellow/red, light green/yellow and green/orange wires. According to the service manual, a MAP sensor failure will not prevent the engine from starting and running. The TP throttle position sensor connector is also a 3p connector but is blue with yellow/red, green/orange and red/yellow wires. Make sure these connectors aren't reversed. The connectors are adjacent to each other so this mistake is easily done.

Hope this info helps!

Mike

It was my mistake, I've tried to edit but too late.

You can hear relays after map disconnecting

 

[Hondafan]

That bank angle sensor in the drawing connects to the fuel shut off relay. Could be an issue with that.

 

[CafeGarage]

That bank angle sensor in the drawing connects to the fuel shut off relay. Could be an issue with that.

Works as should..checked for continuity( workshop manual)

 

[mikesim]

You indicated that there were no fault codes. Did you determine that by the absence of the MIL? Use this procedure to check for any stored fault codes. They may still be present in memory.

[How To] - Read & Reset MIL | How To's | NT-Owners

Mike

 

[CafeGarage]

You indicated that there were no fault codes. Did you determine that by the absence of the MIL? Use this procedure to check for any stored fault codes. They may still be present in memory.

[How To] - Read & Reset MIL | How To's | NT-Owners

Mike

It was also done, additional info - MIL shows up immediately after MAP disconnecting. I have new MAP, but still waiting for ECM bench testing

 

[mikesim]

I'm still skeptical about the MAP sensor since I read in the service manual that the engine will still run with a failed map sensor. Keep us posted.

Mike

 

[CafeGarage]

Small update
ECM is quite hard to check on bench (cover need to be destroyed).
I've made bypass of BAS - didn't help
New MAP - also.
Next step is to install new ECM with Hiss Chip ( i want to stay with original keys)

 

[mikesim]

Small update
ECM is quite hard to check on bench (cover need to be destroyed).
I've made bypass of BAS - didn't help
New MAP - also.
Next step is to install new ECM with Hiss Chip ( i want to stay with original keys)

Do you have a buddy with a Deau with the HISS system? If he would let you swap the ECM and use his key that would save you the expense of a new ECM if it doesn't fix it?

Mike

 

[Shepherd]

The HISS antenna is just that - an aerial held around the ignition with just 2 bolts. The wires in mine were broken inside the insulation and causing issues. A cheap Ali Express copy solved it - but you must ask for one with 60cm cable. DAMHIK
Can you borrow a friend's one? It doesn't have to be fitted, just plug it in, put spare key near it with other key in ignition to start.

 

[Randall-in-Mpls]

Since not all NTs have the HISS, can it be bypassed?

 

[Shepherd]

Not without a new ECM, as I understand it.
There is a YouTube video somewhere of it being done, but it wasn't a simple procedure.
With the issue I had, it was worth a £20 gamble to try.
Hope OP gets it sorted, it's so frustrating not knowing the cause of a problem.