ST1300 and ST1100

[charlie b]

OK so you guys that have or have had these.

Some of you have followed my questions on Connies and FJR's. I have also been researching Beemers (specifically the R1200RT) and the ST's.

So, pros and cons to the 1300 and 1100. I will have ABS on whatever I get so if the 1100 did not have it then I won't consider it.

One item on the 1300 that keeps popping up in the forums is heat. Is it worse than the NT? How much worse?

Wind buffeting. Better or worse than the NT? Remember I had a CB +6 on my NT to get rid of wind issues and it still wasn't perfect for me.

I still am on the fence about the extra weight, which is one reason I am considering the Beemer. I just don't know if I want the extra maintenance on it or not (I do all of my own work).

All of this has come to be after my recent 3000mi ride on the Guzzi. It does most things really well. Relatively small, light weight (just over 500lb wet), really good handling. What would I like more of? Power Better wind management. ABS. I have considered just keeping the Guzzi and completely rebuilding it with a larger motor (1100 vs current 850), except, it does not have ABS.

Thoughts?

 

[Phil Tarman]

Since I've never owned any of the bikes you're considering, I'll give you a completely unbiased, objective opinion.

The ST1300 originally had considerable heat issues compared to the ST1100. I haven't heard that as issue since the first couple of years of the 1300. I'm guessing it's fixed. Some 1100s had ABS and some even had traction control. Biggest issue on 1100s is charging capacity. They upgraded the alternator sometime in the mid-90s (not sure of the date, but someone will chime in. I've never heard anybody talk about buffeting on the 1100 ... or the 1300, for that matter.

The R1150/1200RT has the best ergonomics for me of anything I've ever seen. But I still hear serious reliability issues. As much as I love the bikes, I don't think I'd buy one. I personally have known four people who've had final drive failures. And I haven't known that many BMW owners.

If I wasn't happy with my NT, or if it died, I'd buy a current generation FJR or a later low-mileage ST1100. I had hopes for the MT-09 sport-touring spin-off, but it looks like it's going to be a chain drive. Thumbs-down to Yamaha for that!

 

[RedLdr1]

I have also been researching Beemers (specifically the R1200RT) and the ST's.

If you are looking at ST11's I suggest you go back a little further and also look at the R1100RT and R1150RT. They had ABS available, are fairly plentiful, and appear to predate the final drive issues recent BMWs are having. My 1996 R1100R was trouble free but was expensive as could be to have the dealer maintain.

 

[EX Winger]

Charlie,

Regarding the ST1300's and the heat problem; I too have ben looking and researching and pcking brains of the ownere I kno well enough to trust an opinion from. It seems tha the heat problem is most noticeable by those who are not wearing a good strong well built pait of riding pants, or one piec suits again with very good fabric. For my selfe I think I would not have a problem with one, BUT I am wearing some rather spendy heavy duty leathers , as well as my Stitch roadcrafter, I also have a Gerbing suit called a Cascade extreame, it is also padded , and has built in , but removeable electric liners. I do have a set of light weight mesh that would probably not be the best for that aparticular bike. I will also say that I have never had problems with the NT with anyheat aspect. I have on warm bike, that is the HD Ultra classic a 2001 model, It burned my thighs and inner legs until I invested in a set of heat deflectors that deflected the worst of the heat away from my inner legs, I also upgraded the exhaust to a True Dual system which completely eliminates the heat from the inner legs of my new leather suit.

The ST 13's seem to be pretty plentiful and there are some sweet deals to be found when shoping / browsing around.

Is there a AT13 in my future? I truthfully don't know Do I need one, No, but I love the power they have compared to the power the NT doesn't have My other deleima is the desire for a HD soft tail with or with out Springer set up as a retro old school semi chopper with windshield, leather bags, King & Queen seating worked over by Russell. Do I need that ? No , but it is truly a very good looking machine at least to my eyes. But If I aquire some machines I either must part with something, or spend a big bundle on a larger secure parking building or build a complete garage and I don't want to put that kind of $$ into this place where I live!

 

[Chucksklrst]

I got a slightly used 2003 ST1300 ABS that should be ready for sale by early summer. As of today it only has 128,000 miles on it.

 

[JohnC]

charlie, I have had a 2013 FJR since May. I live in the DFW area. I have been out in 110 F temps and I have had no problem with engine heat. Rode it to Spearfish for NatSTOC.

The bike pulls pretty hard from idle. You can stall it, but you need to do something pretty stupid. The cruise control works great. ABS? Don't know. I never needed it. I find the stock seat to be somewhere between OK and pretty good, but of course YMMV.

I was riding pretty sensibly. Mileage ran 45 - 50 mpg.

My only real complaint is that, at something over 650 pounds, I wish it were a little lighter.

 

[vzshadow]

Charlie,
Go down in to PJ's Triumph in Albuquerque and take a test ride on a Trophy SE.
If you don't like it walk away.

 

[charlie b]

Dan,

Yeah, I have looked at the Trimuphs. Not enough used ones out there yet. I won't get a new bike, way too much money. And Triumphs/Ducs/Guzzis/Aprillas/etc are all in the same boat dealer wise. I have also looked around for an earlier Trophy.

Wayne,

I have been looking at the earlier beemers. Being around an R1150RT is what started me looking at them. I do like the lower weight and a bit extra power in the R12's, not to mention cruise control

Chuck,

Don't worry, I have been following your situation as well If next spring is the time for me I may be in line. The supposed heat issue still concerns me. Do you have a problem with it or is it only certain models, or only in really hot climates. I know it is subjective, like how people think Guzzi's are 'ovens' cause the legs are 'close' to the cyl heads when in reality there is little heat felt on the legs from the Goose (except in crosswinds). Kinda like the NT. Good overall, but, a bit of a crosswind and the down wind leg gets hot.

From what I can tell, the heat and wind management are the only detractors from the ST.

I will be looking for a while. Don't expect to buy anything this year and may even be toward the end of next year.

Heck, Honda may actually surprise everyone and come out with the ST's replacement next year.

 

[junglejim]

Another 2 cents worth. For me, like Phil, the Beemer RT wins the comfort contest hands down both in ergos and wind protection. But they are really expensive and hard to maintain with all the electronics on then new ones. The C 14 is the smoothest and fastest one in the line-up, but big and really needs cruise control. Lighter is better, except on the freeway where power and weight are your friend. That is a judgement the rider needs to make. At my age, I'm done pushing around 600+ pound motorcycles. The Versys has more power than the NT, is lighter and has a higher "fun factor", but has less wind/rain protection. If I can't have my NT, my current next choice is a Wee Strom with just a little less wind/rain protection and a chain drive.

 

[charlie b]

And, FWIW, from my research the R1150RT's are not immune to the rear drive issues.

One on the beemer forum described the rear drive as a typical german design. If the two main FD parts are not machined AND assembled to within .001" then the bearings will fail. The more out of tolerance the faster they will fail. They also seem to have gone through what we Guzzi owners call the Guido effect, ie, if Guido assembled it then you are in deep doo doo. No grease, spacers not installed, bolts left loose, bearings/seals installed with a sledge hammer/screwdriver, etc.

 

[Rich]

To stick to the subject, I've had both a ST1100 and 2 ST1300's (2003 and 2005). I really can't speak to the heat. I never noticed a problem, but I'm mostly riding in cool weather, so if anything the heat would be a good thing. I do know that as of 2004 Honda put various additional heat shielding in place. But once a bike gets a rep, it stays that way, regardless.

All in all, the 1100 is a smoother bike to ride. This is because the engine is not a stressed member and there is isolation between the engine and the rest of the bike. And even though it is heavier than the 1300, it feels lighter, because the engine sits lower in the frame and ALL the fuel is carried below the seat. And while not as powerful as a FJR or a ST1300. I found it was quite happy to cruise at 110-115 MPH.

Due to the longer wheelbase and other things about its geometry, the 1100 steering is less responsive at high speeds (say, above 80 MPH) than the 1300. Not a problem on the highway, really, but if you're into riding on the knife-edge of oblivion in the canyons, you'll not be happy.

The fuel tank of the 1100 is marginally smaller than the 1300, but it gets all-around better gas mileage, particularly at higher highway speeds and low-speed city driving. This despite being carbureted. Both ST's have larger tanks than the FJR. You can get well beyond 300 miles on a tank and can even see 350. I typically refueled at about the 300 mile mark.

Both are way heavier than an NT, even a FJR. Well North of 700 pounds with full fuel. With typical farkles even worse (editor's note: I chuckle at those that complain about the weight of a bike onto which they have hooked numerous pounds of accessories - end note).

Both ST's can be found with ABS. It was available as an option in all years. With the 1100, along with ABS comes Traction Control. Keep in mind the last model year for the 1100 was 2002. So while you might find one with low miles it will still be a 12+ year old bike. Valve adjustment is shim-and-bucket on both ST's

The 1100 is quite a narrow bike, even with the panniers mounted. Useful for traffic-weaving and other such things in the city. I believe this also contributes to its superior high-speed fuel economy. The panniers are a more usable shape, also, that the 1300, the NT or the FJR.

One last thing: The 1100 being carbureted it might not adapt to significant altitude changes as well as a FI motor. This is only a theoretical statement on my part, as I never had occasion to take mine to higher elevations. Other than that, the carbs take little to no attention. I think I synched mine once in 70,000 miles and they hardly needed adjustment.

 

[vzshadow]

Dan,

Yeah, I have looked at the Trimuphs. Not enough used ones out there yet. I won't get a new bike, way too much money. And Triumphs/Ducs/Guzzis/Aprillas/etc are all in the same boat dealer wise. I have also looked around for an earlier Trophy.

Did you ride the Trophy SE?

 

[charlie b]

Dan,

Have not rode either. I may once I get closer to considering a purchase.

Rich,

Thanks. That is great information. FYI, carbs are only a problem at altitudes way up there, like above 9000ft. But, that is probably more of a problem in general as the air gets thin. My goose is tuned for around 2000ft and does fine up here at 7000ft. It is a little rich, but, very little difference in mileage. I'd rejet them but I do too much traveling at lower elevations. I am not hard over on EFI having lived with carbs for quite a few years.

Age of the bike is a factor. I'd like to stick with a bike made after 2000 and newer/lower mileage would be better. After all, I have a 30 yr old bike now Don't want another old geezer

 

[Lorien]

I have also owned and 11 and 13. I will always wish Honda had not replaced the 11 with the 13. The 11 always felt more easily driven with a far less twitchy throttle response. The 13 did not feel quite as top heavy as the 11 with a full tank of gas. I seem to remember it was a little less difficult to do routine maintainance on the 11 but that is hazy through the years. I never big had heat issues with either bike and was on the Gulf coast at that time and had an oversized windshield on both bikes. Now the 13 did have one odd habit of causing in a left side quartering crosswind what I used to call the "fire snake" which was a extremely hot current of air winding up my leg. Rare but exceeedingly annoying. And I never has any problems with the cooling system thermostat which seemed to be an issue for some with the 13.

 

[DirtFlier]

[...AND assembled to within .001" then the bearings will fail...]

In the German engineer's mind, 0.001" is like the Grand Canyon. You probably meant to write 0.001 mm.

 

[Rich]

Both my 1300's (2 model years apart) had a thermostat problem (stuck open or opened too soon) but it was in the first year of ownership in both cases. And in both cases the replacement worked fine. So if you pick one up used, unless the PO was not paying attention, it'd probably be fine. The symptoms were that the bike wouldn't fully warm up in cool weather, the coolant temperature would actually drop while driving at highway speeds and climb a bit when stopped, and fuel mileage would drop drastically.

 

[charlie b]

Thanks guys. Good information.

My NT had the 'heat snake' for me. Same with the Guzzi. At certain crosswind angles the downwind leg gets cooked. Change the angle just a bit and it goes away. Come to think of it, my old CB500-4 had the same problem.

 

[Phil Tarman]

A buddy of mine had an ST1100 for over 100,000 miles. He never mentioned any issues due to carburetion and altitude.

 

[charlie b]

My goose did fine even at 12,000ft over Independence pass. A bit low on power but it ran fine. Next trip we ran the coast highway and it felt like a rocket

Kinda like the first time I took the NT down to sea level. Power difference of 7000 ft is significant.

 

[Phil Tarman]

Power difference of 7000 ft is significant

You've got that right. It's even more so at 12,000!