6th Gear
- Thread starter vzshadow
- Start date
A large part of the "sixth gear" and power is directly related to where the bike was originally designed to be marketed. And when it was originally designed. Since the NT was an old design, heavily based on a even older design, based on an even older yet design, the concept of a sixth gear, on a Euro spec bike, probably wasn't even considered when the NT700 family was designed. Had the NT been designed for the North American market, with its higher average speeds and more open spaces, the idea of an overdrive sixth gear, and a bit more power, would have made more sense.
Yes. Honda made the NT using an old engine design. We got it in the US many years after it had been running around Europe.
But, I won't hold my breath for an improved NT. They probably won't even come out with an updated ST. Despite producing the baggers and several versions of adv bikes.
[...They probably won't even come out with an updated ST...]
The ST series was primarily designed for Honda Deutschland and they called the shots. We were a secondary market so had to accept whatever they asked for from Honda in Japan. At least in the US, the sport touring segment is microscopic so I wouldn't expect a new NT or ST anytime in the foreseeable future.
The ST series was primarily designed for Honda Deutschland and they called the shots. We were a secondary market so had to accept whatever they asked for from Honda in Japan. At least in the US, the sport touring segment is microscopic so I wouldn't expect a new NT or ST anytime in the foreseeable future.
JQL
Growing old disgracefully
Yes it was designed for Honda Europe to beat the BMW, so it is very European by design.
I am led to believe that Honda is looking at delivering a new Sports Touring model some time in 2017. Whether it'll be what everyone on this board wants i.e. an NT/ST replacement or, an updated VFR1200F, or something else (Goldwing replacement), only Honda San can give you this information.
To me, Sports Touring means SHAFT DRIVE, no chain. If it has a chain, no deal so, a VFR replacement with a chain is unacceptable. I also believe this is why the VFR hasn't done as well as hoped. That and seating position, a small fuel tank etc.
I am prepared to wait until the end of this year to see what's what before jumping ship to Yamaha...
As to 6th gear, I want one as an overdrive for the motorway to bring the rpm down to around 3250-ish at 70 mph. On the Twisties, I'd rarely use it. On my CBR600 I'd usually downshift to overtake so, what's the problem? I like using the gears! I like to be in the correct gear for what I'm doing. I have done over 108,000 km (67,200 miles) on my NT and I still try to find 6th multiple times a day, every time I'm on a dual carriageway or motorway.
It is nice to have the option!
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I like getting 50 mpg on regular gas (pure when ever possible). The grass is greener, but I like mowing my own lawn. I wonder what a smaller goldwing would be like, with the engine down low, and a little longer then the NT. I don't need more horse power, since I don't ride 2 up, the dimensions of the NT don't cramp me (maybe a little small for 2 up). Yes the NT was designed in Europe, the bike was made to fit riding conditions found. I think H-D gets a vote for the low seat height, and since I not 6' 2" I want a low seat. Too bad motorcycles have to cost so much, the fact that fewer are made then cars you pay a bonus.
Ride what you like, but heck triumph ventures of your ride if you like, quit complaining about with you did not like about your last bike.
Ride what you like, but heck triumph ventures of your ride if you like, quit complaining about with you did not like about your last bike.
I think the NT is a great all around bike. A good commuter that can travel long distances and isn't a slug in the canyons. THe Honda Accord of motorcycles.
But, I don't own an Honda Accord either, and probably never will. The last sedan I owned was a WRX, which was also modified (in stock form it didn't have 'enough' hp either ). Now, the diesel truck, it does have plenty of power for what I need The only modification to it was some more cup holders and a hard tonneau cover.
I would eagerly recommend an NT to many people I know who want that kind of bike.
Bashing? Nope, just a wish list. Just like I wish Guzzi would update the Norge with a speed control and cure some of the irritating things like electronics that choose not to work sometimes.
Now, if you want a bash of a former bike, then my first one, the CB500-4 (1971 version) would be one to bash. Chain was too small for the power it had and would stretch enough to need replacing every month. Clutch mechanism was a hodge podge of pot metal parts that broke if you looked at them wrong and ate clutch cables. Cold starts were an art form with the choke causing it to flood more often than not. Electric start was almost a joke. Enough battery and motor for two tries at starting. Good thing they kept the kick starter, cause it was needed a lot.
But, I don't own an Honda Accord either, and probably never will. The last sedan I owned was a WRX, which was also modified (in stock form it didn't have 'enough' hp either
). Now, the diesel truck, it does have plenty of power for what I need The only modification to it was some more cup holders and a hard tonneau cover.I would eagerly recommend an NT to many people I know who want that kind of bike.
Bashing? Nope, just a wish list. Just like I wish Guzzi would update the Norge with a speed control and cure some of the irritating things like electronics that choose not to work sometimes.
Now, if you want a bash of a former bike, then my first one, the CB500-4 (1971 version) would be one to bash. Chain was too small for the power it had and would stretch enough to need replacing every month. Clutch mechanism was a hodge podge of pot metal parts that broke if you looked at them wrong and ate clutch cables. Cold starts were an art form with the choke causing it to flood more often than not. Electric start was almost a joke. Enough battery and motor for two tries at starting. Good thing they kept the kick starter, cause it was needed a lot.
JQL
Growing old disgracefully
I very nearly bought a Norge but, it was the little things that decided me against it. And the fact the the panniers make the bike way too wide for commuting in Europe.
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OP
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vzshadow
0
Not an FJR owner here, Trophy SE. Bashing former bikes? I didn't intend to bash anything. I really enjoyed the NT while I had it but it was time for me to move on. Just an observations that now that I have a 6th gear I rarely use it.
NO.......I am now a FJR owner, Formerly a NT700, ST1300 ST1100 owner amongst others. Each of those machines had their pros and cons. Variety is the spice of life. I enjoyed all those bikes to there fullest. Was a Honda motorcycle owner/ fan for 35 years. Owned/ rode the ST's for over 22 years. Though I would try out the NT for a few years as a secondary bike. And now because Honda has discontinued and never updated either of those platforms, I have moved to an updated bike that I have often wondered what it would be like to own/ride. My new philosophy is now only keep a bike for about 5 years and then try something else, as I am getting up age and don't know how long I will be able to ride. 10 year maybe 15 on the out side. Also that is what these forum are for, to be able to discuss the pros and cons, vertues and non virtues, + and -, good and bad, of different motorcycles. To compare specs and most important to hear and understand how other Friends and Fellow rider's ideas compare to our own. Nobody is Bashing their former bikes. Just a friendly discussion. Owners and former owners of any machine are the biggest fans but also the most critical of their machine. Enjoy what you ride and ride what you enjoy.
dnktng
0
If a 6th gear was added to the NT that dropped 70mph rpm from 4960 to 3250, the current engine would not hang in there. The engine only has 22 HP at that rpm and 16HP (minimum, propably a few HP more) of that would be needed just to push it through the air on a flat road with no after market windshield raised up, no large panniers, or riding into a 5 mph wind. Want to go 73mph? Well, it may take a while or a downhill stretch, there is not enough HP available to make that happen. You could down shift, accelerate to 73, and then shift back up to 6th.
If the 6th speed was added that dropped the rpm to 4000 or less at 70mph, it would necessitate an increase in HP or it simply would not work in the real world.
The NT loses ~10HP for every 1000rpm in the 3-6000 rpm range. I would think there would be room to take 700-800 rpm off at 70mph by adding a 6th gear. Any more RPM loss and this forum would be lit up with everyone complaining about a useless 6th gear and rightfully so. Taking 700-800 rpm off would lose 7-8 HP. Taking 1700 rpm off would mean losing 17HP, and there wouldn't be any real world power left to do anything unless you add more HP.
Honda's 1983 52? V-twin in the Ascot was a shaft drive 6 speed. Someone forgot to leave it in as the 52? V-twin "advanced".
I had a ’67 VW Camper that had an ongoing problem with cylinder studs pulling out of the crankcases. When that would happen, it was still driveable for several weeks, but it lost enough power that you had to “row” the gearshift to keep it moving above 45mph. You’d wind it up to about 52-54mph in 3rd, shift to 4th, then watch it slow back down to 45 and shift back into 3rd.
So far (fingers crossed) my NT will hold whatever speed I can get out of it in 5th.
Warren
2
A gear position indicator solves the problem of searching for that 6th gear. They make them for the NT and installation is quite simple