A new way of riding.....avoid tire cupping

[Coyote Chris]

I dont know about you but I hate buying new tires and hate putting them on by shuttling them to the dealer. (The dealer does a crappy job of putting the tires on and following manufacture's instructions as far as tightening the bolts on the bike, etc.
I am happy if I can get 8-12 thousand out of a tire.
Recently, I decided to replace the front tire on my FJR as its going on a trip...a long trip....to the southwest soon.
It had 4,000 miles on it and had a ridge on the outside (see pic). Hands off, it shimmies at 45 mph.
The FJR forum said the ususal things like check the steering head torque spec (tools ordered) and the torque sequence of the pinch bolts as written in the maintenance manual.. Michelin said to switch to the Road 5 GTs, from the Road 5, which I did.
But someone else said something very thought provoking.
First, unless I rode like Joe Rocket, and in the rain alot (I dont) increase the tire pressure of dual compound tires 4 psi.
Second. Quit braking in the corners, where the soft rubber is in contact with the road. A corner coming up? Brake, downshift, THEN lean.
Well. I am going to give it a shot.
My FJR now has 5 miles on its new front, the Road 5 GT. I am running 42 psi
The rear has roughly 1,ooo miles on its Road 5. Lets see what they look like after a 3,000 mile trip.
(There are alot of people that say that cupping/scalloping is a natural phenomena of dual compound tires...espeicially the front. The front tire of my XT has 8800 miles on it and I am not afraid at all to take it on another 1.000-1500 mile trip.)

VFR 4400 mi. FJR 4,000. XT 8800

 

[Mellow]

I've never had a front tire that didn't cup. Valkyrie, GL1800, ST1300, VStrom, Super Tenere, Tracer 900GT.

Yes, it makes send w/dual compound tire but not all of my bikes have had those. The Tracer and VStrom had the least amount of cupping so I assume weight was the main issue.

I'll trail brake in a corner if I need to scrub off some speed but any braking at all will transfer weight to the front... I won't take braking out of my menu however because it's a useful took when you need it and I care more about surviving than saving my tires.

If you think about it.... the dual compound argument doesn't hold water. Even straight line braking will stress the center which stresses the sides as well so you have to anticipate all your braking so you don't ever hit the brakes hard... good luck with that.

ride the bike, have fun, survive... I can't ever get more than 8k our of rear tires. The VStrom was the best on tires and actually could have done 10k. The tracer fronts will last 2 tires. Again, weight based I'm sure. The ST1300s would only do at 8k rear if I was lucky and maybe 10-12 on the fronts but cupping always started at 2-4k.

With 3 bikes and your mechanical skills, buy a tire changer and do them yourself. Then, you can always remount an old tire that only had 1k on it but not good enough for a trip.

 

[junglejim]

Same as Mellow. My front tires cup PERIOD. Every bike and every tire - dual compound, radial, bias, everything.

 

[harryhendo]

I've never had cupping on my motorcycles' tires, but they are all light bikes in comparison to an FJR or ST1300. The wear you show in the first picture looks abnormal, like the tire is running exclusively on the left side.

I don't know if braking into a turn has anything to do with it, but I very rarely brake into a turn unless I am stupidly in too fast, but rather use counter steering to get my lean right. My buddies and I did 300 miles of twisty roads in WV and VA this weekend and I only tapped my brakes in a curve a few times all day. I don't know if that adds wear, but it seems the tires wear very evenly on my NT and CB. Dunlop Roadsmart tires are my choice (excellent performance and wear for the $).

I've learned a lot by watching MotoJitsu videos on youtube... here's one of my favorites:

. The guy is an instructor and communicates very well.

I hope you can resolve that issue... 4K miles with that kind of wear seems odd. I usually get at least 10K on a tire, and I am still irked that I didn't get more.

 

[NewTo700V]

Trail braking is too important a riding technique to give up just to worry about front tire cupping. I change my own tires, trekking to the dealer isn't something I worry about. Unless it's an emergency replacement.

 

[Coyote Chris]

I've never had a front tire that didn't cup. Valkyrie, GL1800, ST1300, VStrom, Super Tenere, Tracer 900GT.

Yes, it makes send w/dual compound tire but not all of my bikes have had those. The Tracer and VStrom had the least amount of cupping so I assume weight was the main issue.

I'll trail brake in a corner if I need to scrub off some speed but any braking at all will transfer weight to the front... I won't take braking out of my menu however because it's a useful took when you need it and I care more about surviving than saving my tires.

If you think about it.... the dual compound argument doesn't hold water. Even straight line braking will stress the center which stresses the sides as well so you have to anticipate all your braking so you don't ever hit the brakes hard... good luck with that.

ride the bike, have fun, survive... I can't ever get more than 8k our of rear tires. The VStrom was the best on tires and actually could have done 10k. The tracer fronts will last 2 tires. Again, weight based I'm sure. The ST1300s would only do at 8k rear if I was lucky and maybe 10-12 on the fronts but cupping always started at 2-4k.

With 3 bikes and your mechanical skills, buy a tire changer and do them yourself. Then, you can always remount an old tire that only had 1k on it but not good enough for a trip.

Buy a tire changer.....Must be nice to have young hands....I can no longer open a jar of pickels..... :ROFLMAO:

 

[Mellow]

Buy a tire changer.....Must be nice to have young hands....I can no longer open a jar of pickels..... :ROFLMAO:

You handle a throttle and brake, drive a car, shoot rifles... you're good, heck it takes more hand strength to pack all the stuff you take on a trip than to change a tire.

 

[Coyote Chris]

Had to look up trail braking as I had never heard of it.

How to Trail Brake - What is Trail Braking and Why it's Fast

Trail braking is the technique of lightened, yet continued braking while turning into a corner. Learn how to trail brake in our short video tutorial.

driver61.com

Tire wear is interesting as the type of bike makes a huge difference. When I bought my Kawasaki Concours C10, I thought, "Why is this thing so squirrley passing semis and in the wind?" I got on the COG forum and they said to switch to Goldwing sized tires. OMG. The bike became a stable beast with 12,000 mile tire change intervals. The FJR is a heavy bike and heavy on the front end. The XT is light and well balanced. Here is its OEM Bridgstone Battlax adventure A40 at 8800 miles on my XT. I have no idea if its dual compound, but I am gonna put on the same tire. I am also gonna still jump the pressure on my tires and see if that helps the FJR. 4,000 miles of conservative riding on a tire is crazy. Even the last PR 4 lasted 8k.
WE shall see what my front tire looks like on the FJR after 3,000 in a month from now and see if my new riding works for touring.

 

[NewTo700V]

Had to look up trail braking as I had never heard of it.

How to Trail Brake - What is Trail Braking and Why it's Fast

Trail braking is the technique of lightened, yet continued braking while turning into a corner. Learn how to trail brake in our short video tutorial.

driver61.com

This is a much more relevant video to watch, as it covers motorcycles specifically.

 

[rc_heli_nut]

I found most of the solution to the tire cupping problem, by purchasing a different brand of tires. I had been using Avons on my NT, they seemed to cup fairly quickly, I switched over to Continentals and the problem is not near as bad, plus I feel the NT handles better with the Continentals (Road Attack 3's).

Brad

 

[Coyote Chris]

This is a much more relevant video to watch, as it covers motorcycles specifically.

Thanks! That clears up alot. I think he is dead on in what he says....."If you want to go faster, brake more." The video itself was very well done and the examples were interesting. That book about going fast on a sport bike looked interesting for those who like twisties.
I would maintain, though, that he needs to do a video for my type of riding....the people in his vid were going way too fast for conditions. Maybe even over the speed limit. That may get you fun, but it also gets you dead. Blind corners and not so blind corners have deer and rocks waiting for you. My ride tracker shows typically max lean angles of 20 degrees. I will go out with the VFR, which uses the same tires as the FJR, and take a twisty road and see what my lean angles are, for reference. The front tire on my VFR, a much lighter bike than the FJR, is a Dunlop Sport max and at 4400 shows a trace of cupping, but no wobble and it will easily go another 1500-2000 miles. The more I think about the past tires on the FJR, the more I think that its heavyness and front end heaviness are part of the issue.
(He is right about the geometry changes. You can prove them to yourself by doing certain things in a hurry in a corner. Even front braking through a corner you hit at speed will produce a more even line.)

 

[Coyote Chris]

I found most of the solution to the tire cupping problem, by purchasing a different brand of tires. I had been using Avons on my NT, they seemed to cup fairly quickly, I switched over to Continentals and the problem is not near as bad, plus I feel the NT handles better with the Continentals (Road Attack 3's).

Brad

I can certainly see different bikes likeing or disliking certain tires more or less. Forum input from guys who ride various tires is worth listening to. I was Happy with the PR 4s on my NT.

 

[Phil Tarman]

When I was picking up Horse from Empire Cycles in Spokane, I had my choice of tires. I had used a set of Pilot Road 5s and the last set was replaced with 10,431 miles. The front was still in pretty good shape, but the rear was squared off. I think it would have lasted another couple thousand miles. The PR4s before had lasted 12,175 miles and were in about the same condition as the PR5s.

 

[Coyote Chris]

When I was picking up Horse from Empire Cycles in Spokane, I had my choice of tires. I had used a set of Pilot Road 5s and the last set was replaced with 10,431 miles. The front was still in pretty good shape, but the rear was squared off. I think it would have lasted another couple thousand miles. The PR4s before had lasted 12,175 miles and were in about the same condition as the PR5s.

I think they are a good tires. BTW, they arent PR 5s. They dropped the "Pilot"
I will be interested to see if the R 5 GT seems to wear better than the R 5.

 

[Phil Tarman]

BTW, they arent PR 5s. They dropped the "Pilot"

I'll be durned! I hadn't noticed that.

Well, the new tires I got in Spokane are Pilot Roads -- PR4s.

 

[Coyote Chris]

I'll be durned! I hadn't noticed that.

Well, the new tires I got in Spokane are Pilot Roads -- PR4s.

Correct. Nothing wrong with those tires...the specs of the R 5s are a bit better. IMHO

 

[Coyote Chris]

This is a much more relevant video to watch, as it covers motorcycles specifically.

OK, took my VFR out on my favorite close winding road...full of lots of blind sweepers....I was traveling at.... let us say...a velocity that COULD have been interpreted as being say something like 10 mph over the posted limits of 35-55. Alledgedly. Perhaps more...maybe.....I just recorded a one way trip as traffic was building. I watched myself ride and I am typically riding well below my own and the bike's capabilities. I achieved lean angles of mostly 20 degrees at those speeds. I would have been comfortable at 10 mph faster with somewhat of a greater lean angle...but almost all corners were blind. I never braked in a corner and I never needed to as I dont go that fast. Didnt drag a peg. I mostly brake, downshift, lean. (or downshift, brake, lean,) if I feel I am heading into a corner too fast for conditions. In the corner, I modulate the throttle a bit as of course speed changes.
But the point of the video is well taken....if you want to go fast, brake more. If I needed to go fast, then yes, braking in the corner is the way to go and everyone should practice that, if you can go fast enough and do it safely. Superbike skool would be interesting.
Chris the Squid

 

[Coyote Chris]

Sweeper!

 

[NewTo700V]

In the corner, I modulate the throttle a bit as of course speed changes.

At those speeds and non-extreme lean angle you're probably fine, but that's not a good habit to be in. Modulating the throttle would be the same as lightly tapping the rear brake throughout a corner while maintaining a constant throttle.

 

[Phil Tarman]

Correct. Nothing wrong with those tires...the specs of the R 5s are a bit better. IMHO

That's why I had Road 5s on my bike last. But they didn't last as long as the PR4s and I couldn't tell significant difference in cornering, braking, or wet traction.