Are you a blipper?

[Coyote Chris]

Hummm...I am missing the concept here....I have never owned an automatic transmission car or bike. Before the days of synchromesh gears, people did things like double clutching to match gear speeds...I think the MGB was the last car I knew of that didnt have
syncho on first gear.....
So, let me get this straight...when a person upshifts,the engine is under load, propelling the vehicle.... the clutch is pulled in as the throttle is backed off ,unloading the engine... the revs drop to some level depending on the speed of the shift and the vehicle, and the gear change is made and the clutch is let out and the engine goes to its next speed under load, which is lower.
When a person is down shifting, say, during the approach to a stop light that is red... the throttle is trailing the engine, or, if you will, the engine is being turned by the rear wheel and the throttle is in the closed position. As the bike slows, one may pull in the clutch, and the engine speed will drop....then the person downshifts and lets out the clutch...at that point, the engine will be turned faster and act with more braking action, of course depending on the speed that all of this is done.
But there seems to be a group of people here that feel they can blip the throttle to raise the revs and then let out the clutch at the exact momment that will match the new engine speed when the clutch is let out?
Well, I suppose that is possible just as it is possible to try and predict when to let out the clutch on the upshift so there is no "jerk".
So I suppose the question that remains is....if you do this, are you saving the clutch at the expense of the rest of the engine?
I am not an agressive driver unless the situation calls for it. I have never replaced a clutch in any bike or car....my wife has never owned an automatic car and she is not the most gentile shifter on the planet, either upshifting or down shifting....she has one car with
298,000 and one car with 191,500 miles...her last car we sold with 250,000 miles on it....we have never replaced a clutch in one of her cars either....
I think I need to call "Click and Clack" at Cartalk....I am not understanding the need here.....

 

[Phil Tarman]

if you do this, are you saving the clutch at the expense of the rest of the engine?

Chris, the idea (for me, at least) is not so much saving the drive train as it is keeping the engine braking from making a greater demand on the traction of the rear tire when you shift to the lower gear. It smooths out the deceleration profile (a made-up term). It's the reason the high-performance sport bikes all have slipper clutches now and the reason folks who are riding at the limits of traction try to match revs as they downshift.

It's not that hard to do -- it just takes some practice and you'll find yourself matching the revs in the new, lower gear pretty closely more often than not.

If you're carrying a passenger, it will also reduce the impacts between helmets.

 

[junglejim]

I agree with Phil. You sure don't want to break traction of the rear wheel by downshifting too hard. It has the same effect as locking up the rear brake. It comes down to how agressively you're riding.

And, Phil, it will reduce helmet contact a lot in my case. If I ride like that my wife simply won't be on the bike, so no chance of helmet contact.

 

[Curious Mike]

New concept for me. Always trying to learn.
I don't remember this being taught or even mentioned in my Basic Rider Class.
Tried to find a YouTube video that best demonstrates "Rev Matching".
This one may be the best.
Wonder what kind of inside the helmet camera he's using? Pretty neat.

[video=youtube_share;H_cPblE6my4]http://youtu.be/H_cPblE6my4[/video]

 

[Rich]

Wonder what kind of inside the helmet camera he's using? Pretty neat.

Ridden by a Borg

 

[charlie b]

Yes, rev matching on downshift is meant to keep from breaking the rear tiire loose. Frequently if you downshift at higher revs and 'pop' out the clutch the engine load is enough to make the rear tire lose traction.

If you ride at a relaxed rate and downshift at lower revs you don't need to rev match at all.

I also consider it 'saving' the dogs a bit. Those are the parts that take the beating in a transmission (sometimes called synchronizers ).

It does depend on the vehicle. I had an Alfa Romeo Spider that 'needed' rev matching when being pushed hard, especially the 4-3 and 3-2 shift). It was known for having beefy gears that were reluctant to change speed during downshifts. Even with that I ate up a 2nd gear synchro in a bit over 10k miles of hard driving. The 240Z I had (both of them) did not need rev matching even running it hard.

 

[mikesim]

Not a blipper. Should I be?

I guess that depends... if you've got one of the (slower) Silver or Black ones, blipping ain't that bigga deal. If on the other hand you have a (faster) Red one, then of course you should blip for safety to keep the bike under control.

;^)

Mike
(who couldn't he'p hisself)

 

[fltsfshr]

It keeps the oil pressure up before the downshift.

fltsfshr

 

[Coyote Chris]

OK, after seeing the video, its is starting to make sense on what is happening.... I ride so conservatively, it is not an issue for me but there could be an issue, I suppose, if for instance it was wet out and I was waiting for a chance to pass a slow vehicle and did a preemptive downshift waiting to go to full warp speed....I cant recall ever having broken a wheel loose by downshifting (I sure have by accellerating too hard on a slippery surface) but I could see how it is possible. My normal deceleration technique is to coast more and double downshift without letting the clutch out....untill the bike has slowed to where engine braking isnt a big factor. Or as Click and Clack say, "Brake pads are much cheeper than piston rings and clutches". Interestingly, when I am driving a car, I tend to coast and use engine deceleration instead of brakes more in light traffic. When the service manager looks at the inspection form filled out by the service mechanic of my Honda CR-V, he cant understand how I have so little brake pad wear after 9 years and 90,000 miles....I just tell him, I coast more and brake less and dont own an automatic.....how does a slipper clutch work?

Chris, the idea (for me, at least) is not so much saving the drive train as it is keeping the engine braking from making a greater demand on the traction of the rear tire when you shift to the lower gear. It smooths out the deceleration profile (a made-up term). It's the reason the high-performance sport bikes all have slipper clutches now and the reason folks who are riding at the limits of traction try to match revs as they downshift.

It's not that hard to do -- it just takes some practice and you'll find yourself matching the revs in the new, lower gear pretty closely more often than not.

If you're carrying a passenger, it will also reduce the impacts between helmets.

 

[Phil Tarman]

Chris, some of them, if I understand them, have ramps that let the clutch slip when there is back-torque on the clutch. There have been some recent changes and innovations that someone smarter than I am will be able to explain.

 

[Coyote Chris]

OK, that makes sense....it would be a good saftey feature for someone who is new and doesnt realize just how slick pavement is just after it starts to rain after a dry spell....
Chris who has lots of respect for wet pavement and black ice.

 

[charlie b]

Slipper clutches are one way. Rollers and ramps set up so when applying a load it locks up. When unloaded the rollers disengage and allows freewheel. The slipper clutch puts a friction pad in there so there is still some friction when unloaded, just not enough to break loose the tire. Some have an adjustment on that friction plate to apply just the right amount of friction.

 

[Rob]

I don't blip. I just thought that was something you old timers did as a habit from days gone by

My uncle blips when he rides. Lots of the Harleys around here do, too. I just let out the clutch more lightly to offset the "jerk"

 

[mikesim]

I don't blip. I just thought that was something you old timers did as a habit from days gone by


smartass kid!!

 

[artemedes]

I read this thread when it started and didn't respond because I wasn't sure. This weekend I was out riding and realized I was trying to rev match out of habit. I did it on both my bikes and my manual shift car. I never revved the engine up at stop lights or anything annoying. I only caught myself doing it on downshifts. I think I developed the habit driving stick shift cars and Like Chris, downshift and engine brake and light use of brakes in typical driving. I have had mostly manual cars. After I noticed I was doing it, I started watching the tach. My blips in most cases were usually less than the revs climbed to after the downshift was complete but close. A couple times I gave it a little too much gas and they were just slightly higher than what they ended up being after the clutch was fully let out. I think it makes for smoother downshifts and I will probably continue doing it. I think the only time anyone would notice is when i accidentally rev to much when trying to match.

I did have manual car that had really bad synchronizers. I drove it for 4 years and never needed to fix them. If you matched revs it would shift smoothly. Otherwise downshifts would get crunchy. Maybe I developed the habit then.


I am probably one of the youngest NT owners on this board.

 

[junglejim]

OK - now that age has been brought into the discussion - it can go a little deeper.
The ultimate shifting challenge for me is on a tractor (older - without syncro) to change gears on-the-go while running a PTO implement.

The PTO should be running at a constant 540 rpm to run the implement, but you have to be quick enough and good enough to change gears on both up hills and down hills without letting the tractor come to a complete stop (with clutch in). I'm sure that a few people on here have some experience with this. You have to add or remove a little throttle momentarily (usually a hand throttle) while tapping the clutch briefly and moving the shifter just at the right time. It is a good thing that tractors are a little more robust than morotcycles or I would have wrecked a few. It makes downshifting a modern motorcycle a no-brainer.

 

[fltsfshr]

Regarding blipping at stop signs... I do it in my S2000, especially if a porsche is next to me. I've been known afterward to leave at a high rate of acceleration. I only blip the scoot at a stop light if she's cute


fltsfshr

 

[mikesim]

Some are old timers that post VERY early 2:42 AM Mike???

Sam

Up early to go to work. Shorthanded and had to get some stuff done before I opened the store.

:^(

Mike

 

[Phil Tarman]

I do it in my S2000, especially if a porsche is next to me.

When Joanne and I were on our honeymoon on our '99 Kawasaki Concours (the lovely Candy Mica Amarinth Red, otherwise known as "purple" version) back in June of '99, we were at the last light on the west side of Greeley, when a guy in Porsche Carrera pulled up alongside. He blipped his engine. I looked over and said, "Nice car." He grinned and said, "Nice bike."

He blipped his engine again. The light changed and he got about a half car length on me, and then I went past him like he was standing still. At 80, I shifted into 4th, 5th, and 6th and backed out of it. He went past me like I was standing still. We slowed back down to the 65mph speed limit and watched him disappear in the distance.

It was about the 4th or 5th most fun thing I did that day.

 

[charlie b]

OK - now that age has been brought into the discussion - it can go a little deeper.
The ultimate shifting challenge for me is on a tractor (older - without syncro) to change gears on-the-go while running a PTO implement.

The PTO should be running at a constant 540 rpm to run the implement, but you have to be quick enough and good enough to change gears on both up hills and down hills without letting the tractor come to a complete stop (with clutch in). I'm sure that a few people on here have some experience with this. You have to add or remove a little throttle momentarily (usually a hand throttle) while tapping the clutch briefly and moving the shifter just at the right time. It is a good thing that tractors are a little more robust than morotcycles or I would have wrecked a few. It makes downshifting a modern motorcycle a no-brainer.

And some would say that my Guzzi tranny is the same one they put in their farm tractors Sometimes it sounds like it too