Mellow
Admin
Probably not that bad... :ROFLMAO:Hey, I wonder if she needs an boy friend???
ATGATT
- Thread starter Warren
- Start date
Coyote Chris
Site Supporter
OUCH! Hey, I got feeling too ya know? :giggle:
teaspoon
Guest
Above the speed of ___ mph, not even your $800 helmet will save you from the vegetable garden. My thought is that a helmet keeps a minor accident from becoming catastrophic, and the abrasion resistant gear is much the same. My delight was ripping down country roads on a hot summer day with shorts and a tee-shirt, and I've got the scars to show for riding in cotton. My first wreck as an 18 year old was to bounce off a van in a low speed collision and to fall backwards onto the asphalt. The cheap helmet spared me from coloring books for Christmas.
I will not ride without boots, gloves and jeans, and temperature permitting I will ride with the jacket. If for no other reason, my wife thinks I'm safer in blue jeans (ha!) and the armored jacket. The best armor will do nothing for bones and internal organs, but it may give the significant other a sense of security.
I will not ride without boots, gloves and jeans, and temperature permitting I will ride with the jacket. If for no other reason, my wife thinks I'm safer in blue jeans (ha!) and the armored jacket. The best armor will do nothing for bones and internal organs, but it may give the significant other a sense of security.
Coyote Chris
Site Supporter
We forgive you your trespasses cause you obviously dont know the story of one of our valued members. He and his friend were hit head on by a person in an SUV. At speed. The guy on he Wing recovered faster than our member. Thanks to his Stitch and his helmet, our member is back on the road on a trike and rode to the rally. He will never be perfect. But he is here. It is not luck that two people with Gear survived a headon in the same accident. You are correct that, to rephrase, its not how fast your body parts are going, its how fast they are stopped. But without a helmet, you will never know. I saw this guy walk away from this wreck.....he had on a helmet.
teaspoon
Guest
I don't doubt that a helmet is a great idea, and I don't ride without one. I apologize if I left the impression that I was apathetic about helmets or other gear. The armored jacket and pants are good ideas too, but don't have the life saving potential the helmet has. I have personal experience to know all these things are true. The armor could have spared me pain and blood on both elbows and knees, but not a cracked rib.
A head-on collision at speed is bad news, and can leave nothing but a mess to cleaned with a water hose. The two you speak of beat the odds by surviving. The pilot in the tumbling Mustang probably survived because the plane around the cockpit became the crush zone, and he was strapped into the meager protection of the cockpit. He had some bruises from the unforgiving harness that saved his life, and he spent more time groaning on the couch for the next few days than he did on the dance floor.
Is that a real Mustang or a reproduction?
A head-on collision at speed is bad news, and can leave nothing but a mess to cleaned with a water hose. The two you speak of beat the odds by surviving. The pilot in the tumbling Mustang probably survived because the plane around the cockpit became the crush zone, and he was strapped into the meager protection of the cockpit. He had some bruises from the unforgiving harness that saved his life, and he spent more time groaning on the couch for the next few days than he did on the dance floor.
Is that a real Mustang or a reproduction?
I recall a number of years ago, when I was a young teenager, I was out camping with a friend and her family. While she was out on the little dirt bike they had, I sat on the picnic bench reading. Some kid rudely interrupted me by losing control of his bike. He layed on the throttle, jumped the curb and just caught the crook of my elbow with the bar end on his bike. It flipped me over, pulled me off the table and drug me a couple dozen yards before he crashed. I ended up with an ambulance ride to the not so local hospital. Since i had not planned on riding, I was in shorts and a t-shirt. Who knew that one needed to be wearing ATGATT while sitting on a bench. haha The ER crew spent the better part of two hours removing sand and small bits of gravel from my arm, shoulder, upper back, leg and face. It was pretty stinking painful. Worse than childbirth. And I have 4 kids. hahahaha
That's a $500,000+ repro kit plane.
mikesim
Site Supporter
HOLY
oop:!!! Sounds if fate had its plans all laid out for you.I went down back in the early 1990s because of an inexperienced rider in our group riding to school. The guy drifted onto the shoulder and into a freeway entry with a lot of gravel littered everywhere. He lost control and the bike when down. His bike flew out in front of me into my lane. My choices were to swerve into the possing lane and go head-on with a 1989 F150 or take my chances with my buddy's bike. I took my chances with the bike and I went down as well. I was also riding another buddy on the back of my bike. I got banged and scraped up in several locations. We all were able to get up and collect ourselves and our broken up bikes. All sore riding tore up bikes we made it school at least 20 miles away. That's where we all were able to address all our wounds.
I was wearing the minimum protection gear such as a jacket and fingerless gloves at that time. I now have scars on my right hand in the middle of the webbing between my thumb and index finger and further up above my waist from this very accident. This is a constant reminder to me to how important ATGATT is.
We have a saying regarding riders of all types. "There's those who have gone down and those that are going down."
OP
OP
Warren
2
Going down is not inevitable. Most of the accidents I have seen were preventable. I guess luck also plays into it. after 50 years of riding I have never been down and have friends that have not either unless you count our mini bike spills as youngsters.
OP
OP
Warren
2
I found this article to be interesting regarding the foam liner in helmets and if they degrade over time or not. The article deals with the EPS foam liner in bicycle helmets but it should not be much different than what is used in a motorcycle helmet.
Helmet Impact Performance Proven to Hold Up for Decades
Summary: There are reasons to replace your helmet, but simple age is not one of them. Extensive testing of used (but not crashed) bicycle helmets shows that EPS foam liners retain their performance over many years.
MEA Forensic announced at a May 2015 ASTM F08.53 technical meeting the results of their testing of 675 bicycle helmets, some as old as 26 years. "There is no justification for two to ten year replacement recommendations based on impact performance," said MEA's Alyssa DeMarco.
MEA and collaborator Collision Analysis collected 1,500 used helmets from consumers and eliminated any that showed damage or did not have date of manufacture stickers. The helmets studied had dates that ranged from 1987 to 2013. They crash tested them at 3 m/s (a drop of 1.5 ft.) and 6.2 m/s (a drop of 2 meters--the CPSC standard drop) on a flat anvil in the dry ambient condition. There were only four that exceeded the 300g maximum threshold: three of the oldest models made to meet only the old ANSI standard, and one newer model that had been recalled. So 671 of the helmets passed the current CPSC impact performance standard.
MEA's analysis showed that there was no significant impact performance change with age. Their 26 year data including all 675 helmets tested produced only a 0.7g per year increase in impact readings at the higher drop height. On average, road helmet models produced results 40g lower than skate-style models, and extra-small helmets were 21g lower than large helmets. Lower g's registered in the headform means less shock passed through to the head, but since they are averages they may not apply for a particular helmet model.
After crash testing the helmets on a standard test rig, MEA took core samples from an uncrashed area of 63 of the helmets and tested them at the equivalent of a 6.2 m/s helmet impact. This generated data based solely on the foam performance. They collected stress and strain data related to aging of the foam. Again, the findings indicate that helmet liner foam does not deteriorate with age.
In 2016 MEA published this study in a peer-reviewed journal, the Journal of Biomechanical Engineering. The abstract is free, but the article costs $25. Similar data was published in 2017 in the Annals of Biomedical Engineering, with a cost of $40.
This is the first time anyone has applied rigorous science to assessing the effects of age on helmet foam liners. It is a welcome antidote to the strident marketing claims that foam deteriorates with age. There are other reasons to replace a helmet--crash damage, strap deterioration, improving fit--but simple aging of the foam liner is not one of them.
Helmet Impact Performance Proven to Hold Up for Decades
Summary: There are reasons to replace your helmet, but simple age is not one of them. Extensive testing of used (but not crashed) bicycle helmets shows that EPS foam liners retain their performance over many years.
MEA Forensic announced at a May 2015 ASTM F08.53 technical meeting the results of their testing of 675 bicycle helmets, some as old as 26 years. "There is no justification for two to ten year replacement recommendations based on impact performance," said MEA's Alyssa DeMarco.
MEA and collaborator Collision Analysis collected 1,500 used helmets from consumers and eliminated any that showed damage or did not have date of manufacture stickers. The helmets studied had dates that ranged from 1987 to 2013. They crash tested them at 3 m/s (a drop of 1.5 ft.) and 6.2 m/s (a drop of 2 meters--the CPSC standard drop) on a flat anvil in the dry ambient condition. There were only four that exceeded the 300g maximum threshold: three of the oldest models made to meet only the old ANSI standard, and one newer model that had been recalled. So 671 of the helmets passed the current CPSC impact performance standard.
MEA's analysis showed that there was no significant impact performance change with age. Their 26 year data including all 675 helmets tested produced only a 0.7g per year increase in impact readings at the higher drop height. On average, road helmet models produced results 40g lower than skate-style models, and extra-small helmets were 21g lower than large helmets. Lower g's registered in the headform means less shock passed through to the head, but since they are averages they may not apply for a particular helmet model.
After crash testing the helmets on a standard test rig, MEA took core samples from an uncrashed area of 63 of the helmets and tested them at the equivalent of a 6.2 m/s helmet impact. This generated data based solely on the foam performance. They collected stress and strain data related to aging of the foam. Again, the findings indicate that helmet liner foam does not deteriorate with age.
In 2016 MEA published this study in a peer-reviewed journal, the Journal of Biomechanical Engineering. The abstract is free, but the article costs $25. Similar data was published in 2017 in the Annals of Biomedical Engineering, with a cost of $40.
This is the first time anyone has applied rigorous science to assessing the effects of age on helmet foam liners. It is a welcome antidote to the strident marketing claims that foam deteriorates with age. There are other reasons to replace a helmet--crash damage, strap deterioration, improving fit--but simple aging of the foam liner is not one of them.
The only issue I can think of is full face motorcycle helmets are enclosed and can hold moisture. My bicycle helmet is a "skid lid" and almost like a mesh with plenty of air flow. The question is how will that change the results? :unsure:
I'd be willing to bet … oh, maybe 25-30 cents … that the moisture from my head wouldn't affect the foam in the helmet at all. But I'd bet a $10 that they won't run a test to differentiate between bicycle helmet foam and motorcycle helmet foam after 20 years of use.
In the early stages of my Moto riding I went down a few times at low speed and was very lucky to just have minor scrapes and contusions. Always wore gloves, helmet, boots but never any real protective jacket. Now in my fifties I won’t ride without at least my boots, armored mesh jacket, Kevlar lined jeans, gloves with wrist protection and FF helmet.
Got stopped by a bike mounted LA County Sheriff recently when I was driving my Accord a bit to aggressively lol. The officer wore textile looking pants, jacket and had a flip up full face helmet. Had a nice chat, no ticket and a reminder to stop acting a fool when operating a motor vehicle. Good to see the officer with some protective gear on despite their great skills I hear to often about motor officers getting injured or killed in accidents.
Got stopped by a bike mounted LA County Sheriff recently when I was driving my Accord a bit to aggressively lol. The officer wore textile looking pants, jacket and had a flip up full face helmet. Had a nice chat, no ticket and a reminder to stop acting a fool when operating a motor vehicle. Good to see the officer with some protective gear on despite their great skills I hear to often about motor officers getting injured or killed in accidents.
Lots of consensus here, as opposed to public roads, where novelty outfits rule the day. Many people are terrible at math, and by extension, understanding and mitigating risks. Until a law forces everyone to conform to a safety standard, there will be a vocal minority fighting against the common sense. See seatbelt laws.
Are motorcycles inherently more dangerous than other forms of transport? Yes. But we need to understand where that danger comes from and stack against it. My MSF course covered it rather well.
Here is Ryan F9 with a rambling opinion and actual math https://fortnine.ca/en/how-dangerous-are-motorcycles
Are motorcycles inherently more dangerous than other forms of transport? Yes. But we need to understand where that danger comes from and stack against it. My MSF course covered it rather well.
Here is Ryan F9 with a rambling opinion and actual math https://fortnine.ca/en/how-dangerous-are-motorcycles
DirtFlier
Site Supporter
At least to me, around 4 years is the max I can get out of a helmet. They all start to get gradually looser with time, get noisier, more scratches on visor, etc. I would venture a guess that if you had an old helmet and replaced it with a brand-new helmet (same brand & model) it would feel great, not that I'd want to do that! The other point is that technology moves on with better features, lighter weight, etc.
I just replaced my Schuberth C3 with the latest version of HJC RHPA modular. When I bought the Schuberth from Aerostich they included a $150 gift certificate so that lowered the price into a reasonable range. This is my 3rd or 4th HJC modular so I like them a lot but I had to try a Schuberth at least once.
I just replaced my Schuberth C3 with the latest version of HJC RHPA modular. When I bought the Schuberth from Aerostich they included a $150 gift certificate so that lowered the price into a reasonable range. This is my 3rd or 4th HJC modular so I like them a lot but I had to try a Schuberth at least once.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2019
- Messages
- 545
- Bike
- 2010 NT700V
I will always wear a full face ,and Snell approved. Back in 2018 I went down in a lowside mid corner. I cracked a full face Arai in the area of where a modular would hinge and lost conciousness. I have no recollection of 24+ hours. No memory of the accident, first responders, ambulance ride, CAT scans, nothing. Only hazy memories of a few hours before discharge.
That helmet saved my life, at the very least I would have been a drooling vegetable without it.
That helmet saved my life, at the very least I would have been a drooling vegetable without it.
I've had multiple crashes in competition road racing and had a few on our public roads and never hit my head so that is some luck however a helmet did more than likely saved my life from a large buzzard that clocked me square in the face at about 60 mph, chin left a good indentation in the chin bar had a concussion for 24 hours, buzzard dead!
Last edited:
Apparently this is also a graphic that was made available by ICON
Attachments
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2019
- Messages
- 545
- Bike
- 2010 NT700V
I was also wearing a full textile suit with Dainese boots (ankle support). Minimal road rash scarring on my right arm between the glove and jacket arm gap. No broken bones. The longest recovery was my right hip, which most likely was a Morel-Lavallée lesion. It didn't really hurt, but a large amount of fluid built up. Pushing my skin felt like a water bed moving around, it was really freaky. 2+ months of a compression sleeve took care of it.