Bias Ply vs. Radial

[Bear]

The NT is the first bike I have owned with radial tires. My Ninja had bias ply Dunlops and they lasted 12,000mi.



Does one really need radials on a sport-touring bike?

Do radials significally improve handling, handle significantly better in the rain,

 

[elizilla]

Well, I prefer radials, and that preference is strong enough that I went through a lot of hassles to get them on my bikes that were OEM spec'd for bias tires. I found that radials improve the handling immensely. An old bike that felt heavy and difficult to maneuver on bias tires, can feel sprightly and responsive on radials - it's really amazing how they transform the feel of a bike.

And while some tires certainly give greater longevity than others, I don't think that has as much to do with whether they are bias or radial - it's more to do with how hard the compound is, than with the direction of the belting. Some compounds are designed for longevity, others for sticky; that's just the way things are. Most tires designed for sticky are radials, but there are also radials designed for longevity.

I think the radials handle better in the curves because they are radials, and they brake better on wet pavement because radials tend to be more modern tires and have the latest compounds and tread patterns. Radials are the direction that the whole industry has moved in, and bias has been mostly left behind. There are a few modern bias tires, but in most cases, bias tires are old tech - you're basically buying a tire that's made the same as it was in the 70s or 80s.

I vote for radials. YMMV.

 

[Lorien]

This topic has always puzzled me at least for the non-racer. Now for those folks I can understand how every thousandth of an inch can translate to faster lap time but for the rest of us to quote the King of Siam "is a puzzlement." I have noted that the rubber on many tires lately is so flexible that if you twist the front tire while stationary it will actually deflect the center groove enough to by readily visible. Let it sit and it slowly comes back to straight. Sometimes I wonder if this is where they get most of their "radial " movement. Since most motorcycle tires are inflated to a level of almost rock hard I find it hard to believe they are flexing a la the way that automotive tires can with their longer and more square sidewalls. Any reference source would of course be appreciated.

Lorien

 

[karl]

http://www.michelinag.com/agx/en-US/products/advantages/bias_radial/bias_radial.jsp

Rather than lap times on the road, can I stop before the wreck or get around that before I die. Think safety and comfort.

 

[Phil Tarman]

http://www.michelinag.com/agx/en-US/products/advantages/bias_radial/bias_radial.jsp

Rather than lap times on the road, can I stop before the wreck or get around that before I die. Think safety and comfort.

Karl, most of the arguments in that bit from michelin seem to me to apply only to car tires which try to keep as much tread on the road as possible. MC tires don't do that -- at least not till they get well-and-truly squared-off.

I'm sure radials offer advantages, but ones that are made for max traction lose a lot of longevity. Maybe not for everyone, but the speeds at which we westerners ride on interstate highways tend to eat up the middle of rear tires. BT-020 rear lasted me 6K; BT-023 rear lasted me 6K -- it probably would have lasted another 2-3K if I hadn't poked a bad hole in it.

My ME-880 has 10K on it and will probably last another 7-10K.

 

[karl]

Phil the tread compound has much more to do with tire life as I understand that. If the Metzler works for you that is fine with me but the stiff sidewall is not what is giving you the longer life.

The link simply points out the difference in the tire carcass and there is no hidden magic there.

 

[Bear]

I feel like Woody Allen in "Sleeper"--after my long hiatus from motorcycling. When I stopped riding the whole technological scene was quite different. Back then, Dunlop, Metzeler, Avon, Continental, and Pirelli, were the top contenders. On my Brit bikes, I liked Dunlop and Avon. On the German bikes, I liked Metzeler and Continental. I never had experience with Michelin except for Sports Cars. I hope I am not being a PITA with all my questions. Certainly it is a bonus to have such a wealth of information available to us seniors who are getting back into motorcycling. (There are lots of us). Katherine has made a case for Radials, and on her recommendation, I will go that route. Now I need to research longevity since I am not an agressive rider. I like to go fast on the long straights, but tend to be a bit more conservative in the twisteys--although I have grounded my centerstand twice. My H-D friends still think that I corner too fast. I am toning things down some. The transition from a Ninja to an NT was a bit more radical than I thought. Now I am looking for a radial that has some longevity. Since I have only 800+ miles on the clock, I can do the appropriate research to find the best tire for what I do. Again, thanks ever so much for your input.
Cheers, Alex

 

[Phil Tarman]

Phil the tread compound has much more to do with tire life as I understand that. If the Metzler works for you that is fine with me but the stiff sidewall is not what is giving you the longer life.

The link simply points out the difference in the tire carcass and there is no hidden magic there.

Karl, Once again, you're right. I guess I didn't make it clear, but I would love to have a Metzler ME-880 radial. It just doesn't exist in a size that will fit an NT except in bias-ply, and even then, it's a smidge larger. I bought this tire because I believe it will wear longer, not because it''s bias-ply. I think what gives it the longer wear is a harder compound, which may also be what reduces its ultimate traction more than the stiff sidewalls.

 

[Bear]

I stopped by my friend's independent motorcycle shop---sort of a hangout for the sportbikers and sport touring folks. He had a stack of tires sitting outside his shop, and they were all showing much more wear on the left side of the tire. He attributes that to the fact that the majority of the roads around here are crowned. When you keep to the center of your lane, there will be more contact with the left side of the tire.

 

[karl]

So in the UK and places where they ride on the left they wear more on the right... I keep hearing that as well and it seems lacking some how.

 

[elizilla]

If you don't like what you choose, choose something different the next time. If you ride enough, all tires are temporary. Ride more!

 

[elizilla]

If you ride more, searching for perfection costs the same as not doing it. It's all good.

 

[Builtdesign]

Katherine what (radial) tires are you using/recommend?

 

[elizilla]

I've only changed the tires once so far; I haven't got enough miles yet to try any more. I bought the Avon Storm Ultra 2. I chose them because the NT is similar in weight to my old Honda V65 Sabre, and I liked the Avon Azaros for, and the Storms are the replacement for the Azaros. So far they are treating me well - the handling is good, and they have almost the miles the OEM tires had when I replaced them, and not only do they have lots of wear left, they haven't squared or cupped. So far so good. I will probably try other tires, though, as time goes on.

 

[Phil Tarman]

John,

I'm about to replace an ME-880 rear after 14,000 miles. It's done fine as far as grip and got slightly more than double the wear I got out of the OEM tire and my 1st replacement (a BT-023).

The BT-023 probably would have lasted for 8-9,000 miles, but got a bad hole that I wouldn't have trusted with a patch. Since I was leaving on a fairly long trip, I went with the ME-880. It was a taller tire, a 160/80x17, and introduced a 4% speedometer/odometer error, and made the bike a bit taller.

I'm going to replace it with another BT-023 mainly because the taller bike is an issue for people with short legs.

 

[elizilla]

I have almost 13K on my rear Avon Storm Ultra 2. This is a radial. It's got a surprising amount of tread left and while it's worn more in the center it's nowhere near as square as the OEM tire was with half this mileage. I'll probably replace it before my next longer trip, but I'm not concerned about it over the next thousand miles or so.

 

[Chucksklrst]

Got a set of Avon STorm IIs in the garage waiting to go on in another 1000 miles. About the time I hit 8k miles on the bike.

 

[karl]

The tires I have on deck are BT023's in the specified size. They are heavy and the two ply sidewalls are stiff.
The only difference in a radial and a bias ply tire is the orientation of the carcass cords. There are many other construction points in various tires that make as much difference as this alone.

 

[Phil Tarman]

Karl,

I'm surprised that two good-looking girls like those in your new avatar are willing to get that colse to an old goat like you!

Granddaughters, I'm guessing...

 

[karl]

Karl,

I'm surprised that two good-looking girls like those in your new avatar are willing to get that colse to an old goat like you!

Granddaughters, I'm guessing...

And that was post beauty treatment