Yoda, you said you've got your 650 Burgman. Compare it to the 400 for us. Please!
I realize I'm coming two years too late at this YODA but I'm very interested in knowing what those last two years have been like with the B650. I've read, studied, inquired and sat on the 650. I don't need to go over specs. with you, you own it. I must admit to being extremely fearful of the (hopefully only in the past) ECVT issues. What has been your experience? Should one expect to ever suffer with such matters? Was moving from the 400 worth it? What have been your pro's and con's, comparisons and contrasts for either bike?I picked up my new Burgman 650 last Tuesday at Oklahoma Honda-Suzuki, in Oklahoma City. I can wholeheartedly, enthusiastically recommmend this company. I flew in to OKC Monday and stayed overnight. Their sales manager, Shawn Bostwick, picked me up at my hotel Tuesday morning. Superb, friendly service! The price shown on Cycletrader for the 'Burg was as expected, the only addition a $60 document fee. Period. Why wouldn't either of our local Suzuki dealers match their price to keep the business here at home? I will never understand. After a quick wire transfer from USAA bank, I loaded up and left for Albuquerque before noon.
The big Burg actually weighs about 40 pounds more than an NT700, but feels lighter due to the very low c.g. It has a 638 cc engine, just 42 cc less than the NT, but only (an estimated) 50 hp at the crank. The first sensation is of a very smooth, solid ride. It is much quieter than the single cylinder 400 Burgman, and I believe even a bit quieter than an NT.
My previous scooter experience with CVT transmissions on the Honda PCX150, and Burgman 400 are completely different from the electronically controlled CVT on the Burg 650. The larger engine bike utilizes an automatic multiplate wet clutch that begins engagement at only about 2,000 rpm. The others use a dry centrifugal clutch that don't start hooking up until 3,500 to 4,000 rpm. At light throttle input, the 650's electronics maintain a much lower rpm during acceleration. But, with greater throttle, higher rpm is called for by the electronics.
I have not wrung it out for max performance yet, as I just finished the 600 mile breakin period on the trip home. Suzuki (and Burgman forum members concur) says to keep rpm's below 4,000 during the breakin period, while varying the load and rpm as much as possible. This is apparently as much for the kevlar / rubber belt and pulley faces as it is for the engine conformation process. I made every effort to comply.
I have read others affectionately call the big Burgman "Lardy", and compare it similarly to a Goldwing. Perhaps a mini-Goldwing is more accurate. Nevertheless, it is very comfortable for both riders, with large seats, excellent room for feet, and good weather protection. No navigation, sound system, or cruise control here, but otherwise an apparently good machine for touring. Time will tell. My wife says it has the best back seat of the few bikes she has ridden on, and especially likes the factory backrest. One promising aspect was the fuel economy on the ride home - about 55 mpg staying within the 4,000 rpm / 65 mph limitation during breakin.
Photos and more detail about the experience will be forthcoming. Stay tuned.
Well I guess that's straight from where it counts most. Decision made; it's either the 400 or the NT. Thanks Chris.I used to be a moderator at BurgmanUSA. I advise you to do some research there on CVT failures. I wouldn't ask the question of whether to buy one there, or if the problems are fixed. I can tell you the answer now.
The new version changed the clutch engagement, but did nothing to fix the cause of the CVT failures. The bad part is there is no warning. You could find yourself stranded at the end off the block, or 500 miles from home.
I have a friend with 3 of them at home. Two are parts bikes. You could look at a CVT failure as just part of the cost of ownership, and if you are mechanically inclined, the cost of repair it's not much. But if you have too pray for someone else to repair it, it it's the value of the bike.
I know of some that lasted 17,000 miles, others that lasted 35-50,000 miles, and one that made over 100,000 miles. It's a crash shoot. On the other hand, how long will a NT last?
Chris
As someone who, like Chris, has owned both a Burgman 400 and (now) an NT, I can tell you that the reason I did not upgrade from a 400 to a 650 was because of the CVT failures. I now have over 57,000 miles on my NT, bought new, three years ago. At 50k miles or so, if I owned the Burgman 650, I would be looking at a CVT failure. The NT has been nothing but rock solid.Well I guess that's straight from where it counts most. Decision made; it's either the 400 or the NT. Thanks Chris.
Yup! On my recent trip to Spearfish, most of the time Traveller was cruising at 80-85 without complaint.Initially, it feels as if there should be a 6th gear but eventually I stopped worrying about the RPM on the slab and just enjoyed myself. The NT's engine doesn't seem to care what it's taching at 70-75 mph and there are many on this list who live out west where they can ride much faster than 75 and they're not complaining.
What were the RPM set at? There are times when the RPM's seem higher than other times.Yup! On my recent trip to Spearfish, most of the time Traveller was cruising at 80-85 without complaint.
Mike
Means the bike is "perfectly" geared.Most stock NTs will reach red line, but with the windscreen all the way down. And if they get there they are sure out of juice. Mine was able to reach red line, but there was nothing left.
What Phil said. You may "think" 6K rpm is high and the bike may be buzzy, but it is not. Honda's love to rev and at 6K Traveller is very smooth. After a long spell on the slab doing 85 when you have to slow to 70, it seems like you are crawling.What were the RPM set at? There are times when the RPM's seem higher than other times.
Ok, that sounds about right. I was noticing that at 60 the RPM's were between 4000 and 4300.What Phil said. You may "think" 6K rpm is high and the bike may be buzzy, but it is not. Honda's love to rev and at 6K Traveller is very smooth. After a long spell on the slab doing 85 when you have to slow to 70, it seems like you are crawling.
Mike