Cluster 737 Max 9

[Coyote Chris]

This is kind of interesting. When I was in Aircraft Mechanics skool, we safety wired nuts/bolts together. Evidently, they dont do that anymore. I have a flight in 8 days on a 737Max-9...if it is allowed to fly. I made a fully refundable flight reservation on American Airlines ...just in case. Operators have to deveelop a process to check the bolts, submit that to the FAA, and the FAA then needs to approve the process. And maybe the work.
This is Bravo Sierra. The FAA and Boeing approved this aircraft with a door plug that is submitted to 10,000 lbs of pressure to 0 lbs every takeoff and landing. With no safety wire....they need to come up with the proceedure for checking the bolts.

United finds loose bolts on plug doors during 737 Max 9 inspections

United Airlines has found loose bolts and other parts on 737 Max 9 plug doors as it inspects its fleet of Boeing jets following the Friday rapid depressurization aboard an Alaska Airlines jet of the same make, according to three people familiar with the findings.

theaircurrent.com

 

[Yoda]

Fond memories of the USAF: AN bolts, safety wire pliers, lacing tape. Man it’s been a long time. I wonder if LocTite thread sealant replaced safety wire??

 

[Coyote Chris]

Fond memories of the USAF: AN bolts, safety wire pliers, lacing tape. Man it’s been a long time. I wonder if LocTite thread sealant replaced safety wire??

The plot thickens. The bolts would have worked fine and did, on other planes... even if they were loose. All they do is keep the door plug pins from sliding up and over the stop pads.
The bolts are not shown on the pic below. They could well have been missing on the aircraft as well. It was brand new. Engineers will now look at the threaded holes for the bolts to see if any bolts were ever put in the holes. If not, then the check of the other aircraft becomes much simpler.

 

[Coyote Chris]

New info today!

 

[DirtFlier]

There have been a myriad of problems for Boeing in the past 5-10 years. I would assume that becoming THE only US-based provider of passenger jets can tend to make one lax in testing and checking?

 

[RedLdr1]

Boeing is becoming a poster child of why aircraft manufacturers should not be allowed to self certify their products. The FAA needs to do their job rather than passing the responsibility to any company whose financial interests may outweigh their safety concerns.

 

[mikesim]

Interesting video. It would appear at this early stage in the investigation that the failure is not due to a design error on the part of Boeing but rather a human assembly error at some stage in the assembly process. The fuselage is assembled by an outside vendor in Wichita, KS where the plug door is installed at that time. I would suspect that the vendor was not required to install the safety bolts and castellated nuts and cotter pins since the door was expected to be removed by Boeing in Washington to complete the interior assembly. It is at this time in the assembly process that the safety bolts, castellated nuts and cotter pins should have been installed and verified as part of the final assembly. It appears that the failure occurred someplace at Boeing at this point in the assembly process. The aircraft was so new that I doubt that the door was ever removed for maintenance or inspection at this point in the life of the aircraft. If the service record of the aircraft indicates otherwise then my theory is out the door. Fortunately, the failure occured early in the flight at a low altitude and no lives were lost and the door was found in pristine condition so the cause of the failure should be relatively easy to determine.

Mike

 

[Frosty]

Boeing like any manufacturing concern will have their share of problems. There are redundant checks and inspections that are not required in other products. The bad press and scrutiny that Boeing went thru over the 2 overseas crashes was completely over the top. The overseas airline put people on an airplane after a reported control malfunction that was unresolved. There was a lack of maintenance and forged maintenance checks involved with those airlines. A SWA Captain, flying that model, told me that his airline had their pilots on that airplane fly the same profiles as the two crashes in the simulator . The pilots had no problem with the incident profiles. So why was all of the attention focused on Boeing, not maintenace, operations and training. That is where the money and headlines are. The winners are lawyers, newspapers, news programs, politicians and bureaucrats. The people picking up the bill are consumers and tax payers.

 

[RedNigel]

My wife is an airworthiness certification specialist at a companay that runs an ODA. She works with a man who has been in Certification all his life. He says "The longer I do this job, the less I want to fly"

 

[Coyote Chris]

Interesting video. It would appear at this early stage in the investigation that the failure is not due to a design error on the part of Boeing but rather a human assembly error at some stage in the assembly process. The fuselage is assembled by an outside vendor in Wichita, KS where the plug door is installed at that time. I would suspect that the vendor was not required to install the safety bolts and castellated nuts and cotter pins since the door was expected to be removed by Boeing in Washington to complete the interior assembly. It is at this time in the assembly process that the safety bolts, castellated nuts and cotter pins should have been installed and verified as part of the final assembly. It appears that the failure occurred someplace at Boeing at this point in the assembly process. The aircraft was so new that I doubt that the door was ever removed for maintenance or inspection at this point in the life of the aircraft. If the service record of the aircraft indicates otherwise then my theory is out the door. Fortunately, the failure occured early in the flight at a low altitude and no lives were lost and the door was found in pristine condition so the cause of the failure should be relatively easy to determine.

Mike

From last night's FAA news conference. One missing boss, one cracked boss, loose boss bolts on 5 planes. Only the first 7 minutes of this long vid are important. Note that no network has filmed people swinging the door plug up and down into the stops and placing the keeper bolts and castleated nuts and cotter pins in. If the fAA is gonna require loose bosses to be magnafluxed/electronically checked for cracks, I am sure glad I bought a one way refundable ticket on AA. One week to go. Everyone stay warm. -35 coming to MT.

 

[mikesim]

As luck would have it, I am booked on a Southwest 737 flight tomorrow morning to MSP....... think I'll get an aisle seat.

Mike

Whew!! Just looked, a 737-700!

 

[Coyote Chris]

NTSB last night. Mike is flying on a Boeing. Pray for him.

 

[junglejim]

NTSB last night. Mike is flying on a Boeing. Pray for him.

Worse yet - he’s going to Minneapolis.
A pilot friend of mine says you no longer buy a ticket for a commercial flight, you buy a chance.

 

[Coyote Chris]

Worse yet - he’s going to Minneapolis.
A pilot friend of mine says you no longer buy a ticket for a commercial flight, you buy a chance.

He is correct. Just ask the pilots here. And read Fate is the Hunter. The Miracle on the Hudson and the Burning Plane of Tokyo were really miraculous. We have been too lucky for too long. One thing that the Burning plane showed us was you cant have too many exits. Only 3 out of 6 were accessable. Take out the door plugs and put in escape doors and chutes. For me, the big question is did Spirit deliver the fusalage with the Plugs installed and inner covers on?????? The news says they built the plugs.......As of this morning, the news is there is no word....except that the FAA will now investigate Boeing and put more inspectors in at the plant.

 

[ARKNT]

So which is more dangerous, motorcycles or flying? Both seem a bit risky but riding the bike I won't fall as far before hitting something. That hitting something is the rough part.

Arknt

 

[junglejim]

That depends on the rider/pilot/plane/conditions/and alcohol consumption. Could go either way. Just remember YOU are the most important factor in the equation when riding your motorcycle.

 

[suvcw04]

Boeing CEO says, "Look on the bright side . . ."