Hacking the Super10

bicyclist

Guest
You guys are probably getting tired of hearing...
I'm not. That's a sweet looking rig.

At our local club meeting, there was some discussion of the Pediatric Brain Tumor Ride For Kids fundraiser. Some of the people who have sidecars make it a point to show up every year because the rigs are perfect for giving rides. Sidecars are a lot of fun. Years ago, one of my buddies had a hack on a /5 BMW at a local rally and we piled a bunch of people on and rode around the rally site. Eventually, he parked it, but people kept coming by and stealing it to ride around the site. Why didn't he take out the key, you ask? He did, but any BMW key would allow the bike to be started back then. It was called the "nail" and plugged into a socket in the headlight.
 

Bear

2
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Messages
1,584
Location
Belfast, Maine
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2010 NT-700 V Red
I remember those "ignition keys". They were so practical. With all the thievery today, it would be asking for trouble. Loved that R-50! NSU and Zundapp had the same key system.
 
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elizilla

Guest
Yesterday morning they called just as I was getting in the shower, to tell me they'd be here this morning between 8am and 10am. Then they called again at 5pm yesterday to say that they had reached the limit of hours they can be on the road in one day, and they were parked at a truck stop a couple miles from my house. I could come and get it there that evening if I liked. Twist my arm...!

So Steve drove me down there to get it and ride it home.

The bike windshield wasn't on it, because I didn't send it. The mirrors were on it, but tucked in and tightened so they couldn't be positioned, and we didn't bring a wrench. So I had to ride it home without mirrors or windshield. The windshield was no big deal, but the lack of mirrors was nerve wracking!

It had a little tendency to tankslap at low speed, but the Ural does that too, and it was amenable to the same fix - give it a little gas and it stops. It tracks very straight and true, not like the Ural where you have to fight it all the time. I was please with the handling.

The new electric push button shift is very precise, but not intuitive. The red button upshifts and the green button downshifts. Seems backwards, but if there's a convention here I don't know it, and it shouldn't matter once I get used to it.

I have hyperlites on my brake lights, but the sidecar doesn't have them. This could be confusing for drivers behind me. Considered moving one of the lights over to the sidecar side, but that would be a heck of a wire run, since they are run off a controller that's in the bike tail. I think I will just order another hyperlites kit and attach it to the sidecar taillight.

The bike was delivered with the tonneau cover installed. It's kind of difficult to install and remove with the snaps. I am going to put some zipper-ease on the snaps and see if that makes this easier. The sidecar windshield folds down under the tonneau cover and this led to the one delivery flaw. The edge of the windshield has damaged the upholstery on the sidecar seat, in transit. :( I am going to see if they'll send me a replacement seat cover. And next time I fold the windshield down like that I'll put something in between to protect the seat.

The rear luggage rack is hinged at the back, and latches at the front with hardware that I think is sourced from a jeep. :) The interior of the sidecar is neatly carpeted but you can lift the carpet floor mats to see the fiberglass interior of the tub. The seat pulls out and you can access the wiring behind it.

The front end mods are very interesting. I took some close up pics and put them in my sidecar album. I also put in some pictures of the shifter mechanism.

This morning we drove it out to the local coney island where we like to eat breakfast on weekends. It drove well and Steve liked the sidecar accommodations.

After breakfast we decided it would be fun to go home and get the Ural and take them both out to a motorcycle shop about 20 miles away. Both bikes needed fuel so we went to the gas station. This is the trip where I got into trouble. Tankslappers! Terrible tankslapping. And stuff like this is worsened when you get tense. Every little ripple in the pavement was setting it off, and I couldn't get it under control without stopping the bike. I gave up within a couple blocks and limped home. Steve then took it for a test ride and was able to get past it fairly easily. Me, I am just too tired. I will try again tomorrow. But I think I may need a steering damper. I have posted to the Super10 forum to see if anyone there has one they can recommend. And I will see what DMC suggests when they open on Monday.

Sidecar album with pictures of last night's first ride, and close ups of some of the mods
 
Joined
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Location
Tijeras, NM
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I am kinda surprised DMC did not test ride it and install a damper, or make some other adjustment to fix the issue. After all, it is their suspension mod at work here. Is this the first SuperTen that has been hacked?
 

karl

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Hampden, MA
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2010 Silver NT700VAA
Looks beautiful, hope you get the handling sorted to your satisfaction. Looks like a blast.
 
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elizilla

Guest
I rode it again yesterday and was able to blast past the tankslapper range with no difficulty. I think that on Saturday I was just too tired. Fatigue is the killer.
 
Joined
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McAllen, Texas
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2010 Silver NT700
I rode it again yesterday and was able to blast past the tankslapper range with no difficulty. I think that on Saturday I was just too tired. Fatigue is the killer.
As someone who has never ridden a bike with a hack, is this common to have happen? If so, is there a commonly known cure for it?
 
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elizilla

Guest
As someone who has never ridden a bike with a hack, is this common to have happen? If so, is there a commonly known cure for it?
I don't know of a commonly known cure for it.

When you put a hack on any motorcycle, you are creating a wildly unbalanced vehicle. There are all kinds of setup things that can be done to make it easier, but nothing is going to make it turn left the same way it turns right - the rider has to learn to handle this. One thing sidecars will do, is make the steering extremely heavy. Other than making the bars wider, the only way to reduce steering effort is to adjust the trail. But with lighter steering, tankslappers become a risk. It's all trade-offs.

My Ural will also tankslap under certain specific conditions. It's not a huge problem; I have learned how to avoid triggering it, and how to recover when it happens. But when you are tired, it's much harder to be skillful. Perhaps when I have ridden this bike for thousands of miles, I will avoid the tankslapper triggers without thinking about it. But right now, it's tough. The new bike has much lighter steering than the Ural, so it makes sense that it would be more able to get into these oscillations.
 
Joined
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499
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Corinth, TX
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2013 Yamaha FJR1300
Well, you have the critter home. Congratulations. Now the fun begins.

One thing sidecars will do, is make the steering extremely heavy.
Next farkle: power steering?

In the mid-'60's, when I was stationed in California, a friend of mine swapped a semi-old Honda Super 90 for an old Harley Servi-Car. Now, that handled weird. Unlike a side hack, though, it was at least symmetrically weird.
 

kelly

Guest
I would love to see this in person. Maybe sometime this summer. You are not far from me.
 
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elizilla

Guest
Sure, c'mon by anytime. Or perhaps I will see you in Stockbridge on May 3?
 
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elizilla

Guest
All Clubs Day, on the village square in Stockbridge MI, May 3, 10am to 3pm. These twice-annual events in Stockbridge have replaced the events at Suzi Greenway's farm. (The events had outgrown the available space she owns out there - bikes were parked for a half mile up and down her road, and were trespassing onto neighboring properties, and it was just too much.) Suzi is still the organizer and for this year she's adding a swap meet. It's always a good time and even last year when it poured rain there was a huge turnout. Basically, people just show up with their bikes, and wander around kicking tires. The village closes the streets on two sides of the square and turns them into extra bike parking, but the bikes are also parked all over the grass on the town square, and on the streets all around the square. Various local clubs set up tables and cluster together, and there's a slightly organized area of show bikes, but mostly it's a mixed jumble of everything. It's free, you don't need to sign up or anything - just show up, it's informal. You can buy a breakfast at one of the churches next to the square or lunch at the Lions Club BBQ in the fire station, and there are also two cafes on the streets facing the square, and a sit-down restaurant on a side street nearby.

And the fall All Clubs Day is on Sept 20 this year.
 
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Joined
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Katherine, it sounds interesting, but I am planning on being in WV. Maybe September.
 
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elizilla

Guest
DMC is making a steering damper for me but it's not done yet.

Heidenau has announced a sidecar tire in the size I need for the front. Yes, there are special sidecar tires, and by that I don't mean just for the sidecar wheel. Mostly they are used for the front. None of the current choices have been available in a size that fits the Super10, until this new Heidenau tire. They aren't here yet but they are supposed to be available in early May. I'm going to try one as soon as I can get it.

In the meantime, last weekend one of my riding buds came up with a good idea. One of the things I did to my Super10 before I decided to hack it, was to lower the rear by changing the dogbones. The front couldn't be lowered to match; there's only room to drop the forks in the triples about 1/4" before they hit the bars. And changing the rear tire to a car tire lowered the rear even more. Which leaves the front pretty high compared to the rear. My friend suggested if we can change this we can bias more weight to the front and this might help with the oscillation. (The sidecar wheel's ride height is adjustable with the flick of a switch.) So yesterday we put the original dogbones back in, which raised the rear. I have only had a chance to ride once since then, and I tried to induce the wobble. It wobbled a little but it didn't seem anywhere near as bad. I'm not going to assume it's fixed until I get a bunch more rides in, though. Since I have had this outfit, I have had more good days where the wobble didn't trouble me, than I have had bad days when it drove me nuts. I think that a large part of my difficulty is rider-induced; it's only bad when I am having a weak day. So we'll see how it goes over the next several rides, whether it surfaces again.

I might carry on in this direction by installing bar risers so I can get more room to drop the forks in the triples. I have some risers kicking around the garage somewhere. Need to find out how far I can go with that, before I have to worry about bashing things that shouldn't touch.

If I can tune it out by adjusting the relationship between front and rear height, or by changing the front tire, that is better than a damper and I'll stop there.
 
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Warren

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2019 Yamaha XMAX
Getting a bike tweaked to suit your needs can be frustrating but once you find the sweet spot its a wonderful thing.
 
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McAllen, Texas
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Thanx for the feedback.

Fair guess to say that the NT would not be a good bike to put a sidecar on since there are no auto tires made that will fit it?
 
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elizilla

Guest
I think the NT would be a great sidecar tug. Better than the Super10. Never mind the tires.
 
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