Harley Electric Motorcycle Vision

[Warren]

I cant wait to see one of those bandanna wearing pirates riding one of these


Aspen, CO (January 28, 2019) – Harley-Davidson, the company that has defined the motorcycle industry for the past 116 years, introduced two new electric concepts showcasing the excitement and style of the future at X Games Aspen 2019.
Following the recently revealed Livewire™ motorcycle, these two concepts look towards a new electrified chapter of Harley-Davidson’s story that will continue with innovative approaches to transportation and technology, wrapped in evocative styling and design.
The upcoming electric portfolio will feature a spectrum of models and price points from a few thousand dollars to Harley-Davidson’s halo electric motorcycle, the LiveWire™ at $29,799.

Concept art shown. Production model features may vary. Not yet available for sale. All future models shown may not be available in all markets.
All-new Riding Experiences with Iconic Harley-Davidson Power
As part of the push towards a different future, these concepts explore the potential of urban mobility and two-wheeled adoption. Both concepts bring Harley-Davidson’s expertise in expressive two-wheeled experiences and push boundaries in design and technology.

• Attracting New Riders: The goal for these concepts is to not require a motorcycle license to operate and feature twist and go operation; lowering the learning curve and expanding the opportunity to riders and aspiring riders everywhere in the process.
• The Riding Experience: With an intended lightweight target for each concept, agility and maneuverability are at the core of their riding experience and ease of use. Combined with electric powertrains that provide instant acceleration, the goal is to offer a thrilling riding experience that adds emotive moments to your daily life.
• Battery design is intended to be removable and enable single-hand-carry back to an apartment or office space to charge using a charging dock that plugs into any standard household power outlet.
• Individuality in an Urban Mobility Future: The design language of these two concepts embrace their electric powerplants and put raw emotion into the equation of the future with unique silhouettes, form factors, and solutions. Making personal expression more accessible and individualized is at the very heart of our strategy to grow the next generation of Harley-Davidson riders globally and is a key component in H-D’s vision of the future of urban mobility.

Leading the Electrification of Motorcycling
In 2018, the company announced its More Roads to Harley-Davidson accelerated plan for growth. The plan includes initiatives to deliver new products in additional motorcycle segments, create broader access, and strengthen the H-D dealer network. It also boldly proclaims that Harley-Davidson will lead the electrification of motorcycling. These two new concepts are manifestations of that vision, and alongside the production 2020 LiveWire™ motorcycle, point to a broad portfolio of electric two-wheelers designed to establish the company as the leader in the electrification of mobility over the next several years and inspire new riders with new ways to ride.

 

[Sojourner]

Y'know, someone needs to revive the Cushman name, sort of like they did with Indian, only make it an electric scooter company.....

 

[ARKNT]

Harley may need to adapt a bit, even re-invent itself but I'm not sure that one will do it for them.

Brad

 

[Brillot2000]

Y'know, someone needs to revive the Cushman name, sort of like they did with Indian, only make it an electric scooter company.....

Cushman is currently operating as a golf cart and small industrial vehicle manufacturer.

 

[Brillot2000]

Harley and all other motorcycle manufacturers need to start looking to attract the Millennials and the leading edge of Generation Z. These are the future consumers of the world that will replace us all. Motorcycling is not that attracted to these groups as it was to the previous generations. This group is more eco-friendly and many prefer not to drive or get their licenses. Electric scooters that do not require a license to operate will be most appealing to many within this group, especially those that live in an urban environment.

I am a Generation Xer in my mid-40s. That boat has sailed for all motorcycle manufactures and they are not looking back. We and the previous generations are no longer on their radar. All can you expect for this aging group are gadget filled Gold Wings and Harleys. I have done electric and I will revisit it when either Honda or Yamaha gets on the ball or if they introduce Hybrid bikes.

 

[ARKNT]

With the latest polar vortex that heavily affected the Midwest, I had the thought pop into my head about electrics. How do the new batteries respond to very cold (below zero F)? There are several hybrids and a few electrics out there operating but I don't know how they would respond to real cold.

Brad

 

[mikesim]

I like how HD is so innovative and built this into the design seamlessly.

View attachment 13737

Can you imagine what that would do when you went down the street with a string of bubbles trailing after you? And the after market sales of soap solution would make them a lot of money. It would change the entire perception of HD motorcycles. People would turn their heads to watch and be thrilled, rather than upset at loud pipes.

Chris

I can see it now…… "big bubbles save lives"...…

:devilish:

Mike

 

[Sojourner]

How do the new batteries respond to very cold (below zero F)?

I couldn't give you numbers (I'm sure the almighty google has some), but that's one of the big problems with electric vehicles in a northern climate. In cold temps, your range decreases pretty significantly. Partly it's the fact that the battery just can't muster the same number of amps, and partly because in a car there have to be electric heaters.

 

[mikesim]

I recall reading that the Li Ion batteries that are used to replace the lead acid batteries in our bikes do not crank as well in very cold weather. It is recommended to turn on a headlamp for a few minutes to "warm" the battery up before starting. Since the battery chemistry is very similar for the batteries used in electric bikes, I would assume that the performance characteristics are the same. A good source of info would probably be Andy Goldfine of Aerostitch fame as I believe a year or so ago he rode an electric bike year 'round in Duluth, MN to see how it performed as a commuter in the frozen Nawth.

Mike

 

[RedLdr1]

If you want to read about just how bad lithium ion batteries are in the cold visit a RV forum. The latest "must have" in the motor home world is a huge "Li-3" battery pack with 400-600 watts of solar replacing the traditional generator set and -12VDC "house" batteries. As far as cold weather performance a lot of folks have learned the hard way this isn't the optium configuration you want to take to Vail for sking...:unsure: And it adds roughly $30k to the motor home sticker... I looked at a Coachmen Galleria Class B Mercedes Sprinter conversion van with the "Li-3" option with a sticker just under $180,000 at a RV show a couple weeks ago.

 

[ARKNT]

It would take a while to break even on $30K battery package. All this green power sounds good in theory but it still has a ways to go in many practical uses.

Brad

 

[Brillot2000]

Wh

It would take a while to break even on $30K battery package. All this green power sounds good in theory but it still has a ways to go in many practical uses.

Brad

When I bought my Zero years ago. The dealer told me that Lithium Ion Batteries were $1,000 per kilowatt-hour. That bike had 12.5 kWh main battery pack and the extended range 2.3 kWh battery pack for a total of 14.8 kWh, which would equate to $14,800 in batteries.

Harley better have at least a 20 kWh battery pack for their asking price for a Livewire.

 

[RedLdr1]

All this green power sounds good in theory but it still has a ways to go in many practical uses.

Even with all the Li-3 power, over 800Amps, it will only run the new DC powered Air Conditioner (13,500 BTU) for around 6-8 hours before the batteries are exhausted.
On a scarier note I'm waiting for one of these new rigs to catch on fire and melt the RV. 800Amps is more than enough amperage to reduce a RV to a pool of smoldering slag.

 

[Warren]

I read that Harley's strategy is to grow their international business until its 50% of their total sales. I have a feeling that many of these new electric motorcycles are going to be built in Asia for sales in developing markets. Some may make it back here but I am not sure Harley knows exactly what to do about the dwindling US market.

"Making personal expression more accessible and individualized is at the very heart of our strategy to grow the next generation of Harley-Davidson riders globally and is a key component in H-D’s vision of the future of urban mobility."

 

[mikesim]

Color me a Luddite if you will, but I don't see electric vehicles (Harley or otherwise) being truly accepted by the general public anytime soon unless and until they can resolve the range and co$t issues. There will of course be a niche market for those using their vehicles as short range commuters and also those technophiles who pride themselves on being the cutting edge of technology, but for average Joe six-pack, not so much.

Also, once folks realize that the true environmental footprint of vehicles using Li Ion technology is huge and factoring in the environmental cost of recharging, it really makes no economic sense with current technology.

IC engines can be made to operate incredibly clean and the energy density of HC fuels are difficult to beat.

Mike

 

[DirtFlier]

How can any self-respecting bad a..... rumble through town and scare all the women and children on a silent machine? Maybe H-D's Screaming Eagle accessory group will come up with the potato-potato-potato sound effects.

 

[Brillot2000]

The truth is that the world's oil supply will not late forever. Some experts say with the current rate of consumption that there will not be any oil left by the year 2050, which is in 40 years. It might be in the latter portion of my life that there will be oil shortages. It will really be my children and grandchildren's issue to deal with. To simply deny that this future will be upon us very quickly and before you know it is fool hearted. Planning and looking to other energy now alternatives will make the transition smoother than trying to scramble to find something at the last moment.

I owned an EV motorcycle for 2 years and put 23k miles on one primarily commuting. There are some drawbacks with them, range anxiety and extremely long charging times are the biggest hurdles to overcome. The Zero that I had only had a standard AC plug, which could take 6-14 hours to charge. Since then, many EV bikes have been outfitted with 2-Level chargers that can fully charge a fully depleted battery in 3-4 hours versus overnight. Zero Motorcycles is the worst example of an electric motorcycle as they are really a "Startup Company" that has all their customers being their product testers. They simply pump them out the door and deal with issues as they present themselves. I found this out at firsthand.

 

[Sojourner]

Thing is, folks were saying that our oil was running out 50 years ago. We kept finding new oil fields we didn't know were there, we found new ways of extracting oil that wasn't previously available. If we ever get to the point where we run out of oil, we'll be on to some better energy sources.....via technology. We need to let innovation lead us, and the free market is the most efficient at it.

Only So Much Oil in the Ground
Tower of Power

There's only so much oil in the ground
Sooner or later there won't be much around
Tell that to your kids while you driving downtown
That there's only so much oil in the ground

Can't cut loose without that juice
Can't cut loose without that juice
If we keep on like we doing things for sure
Will not be cool - It's a fact
We just ain't got sufficient fuel

There's only so much oil in the ground
Sooner or later there won't be none around
Alternate sources of power must be found
Cause there's only so much oil in the ground

There's only so much oil in the earth
It's a fact of life - for what it's worth
Something every little girl and boy should know since birth
That there's only so much oil in the earth

There's no excuse for our abuse
No excuse for our abuse
We just assume that we will not
Exceed the oil supply
But soon enough the world will watch the wells run dry

There's no excuse for our abuse
No excuse for our abuse
We just assume that we will not
Exceed the oil supply
But soon enough the world will watch the wells run dry

There's only so much oil on the ground
Sooner or later there won't be none around
You can tell that to your children while you driving downtown
That there's only so much oil on the ground

There's only so much oil in the earth
It's a fact of life - for what it's worth
Something every little girl and boy should know since birth
That there's only so much oil in the earth

Can't cut loose without that juice
Can't cut loose without that juice

If we keep on like we doing things for sure
Will not be cool - It's a fact
We just ain't got sufficient fuel

We just ain't got sufficient fuel
We just ain't got sufficient fuel

 

[Warren]

Honda has been working on both hybrid and electric scooters. I believe they are now in production with the hybrid for sale in Japan and the all electric version is well beyond prototype stage. They are small scooters based on the PCX125 and 150. I have been looking at purchasing a PCX150 for my daily commuting since my commuting is on surface streets and the NT is larger than what is needed. Their all electric version is interesting in the it has small removable batteries along with a desk top charger that you can have at work or home. No information on range or cost that I found although since its being developed for more scooter centric countries the premium will have to be small or they will not sell many of them.

 

[karl]

https://www.reference.com/science/oil-formed-133b7c8e3a59afd2