Harley Livewire

Warren

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Harley’s new LiveWire is shockingly fun to ride and an explicit bid from Harley to get younger riders to buy its wares. That isn’t working out so far, though, according to a Reuters report. The numbers are, in fact, pretty bleak.

The first LiveWires have just started reaching dealerships this month—two months after the motorcycles were expected to arrive. Reuters polled dozens of Harley dealers from across the country to see how the rollout was going. The answer is: not great.

Most of the orders at the dealerships have been coming from older buyers who already ride, which is in-line with Harley’s current core demographic, one it’s desperately trying to change.

Younger would-be buyers, meanwhile, are put off by the LiveWire’s high cost. The LiveWire starts at $29,799, almost enough for a Chevy Volt ($33,520) or over $10,000 more than the competing Zero SR/F electric bike.

Another thing holding LiveWire back: Its range, which is a decent 146 miles in the city but plummets on the highway, giving it 96 miles combined range.

The dealers Reuters spoke with haven’t been impressed

Harley’s dealers said they are getting inquiries from young customers, but are struggling to translate them into sales. A key reason: LiveWire’s retail price.

“Interest is very high,” said a sales manager at a New Jersey-based dealership, who declined to be named because he was not authorized to speak to media. “But once you get to pricing, interest is thrown out of the window.”

All of that is to be expected since, as the story points out, a lot of millennials have student-loan debt, and probably aren’t interested in shelling out $29,000 for any single thing, much less a heavy electric motorcycle with limited range. What should concern Harley, though, are the dealers who aren’t even trying.

Seven Harley dealerships told Reuters they have not even bothered ordering the bike, which would require investing in a Level 3 charging station and training staff.

An Ohio-based dealer, who had initially signed up for LiveWire, said he pulled out at the last minute as he was not sure of the bike’s demand in his area.

Harley wouldn’t say how many pre-orders it received for the LiveWire, but an analyst estimated they would sell between 400 and 1,600 LiveWires its first year. If true, that would be less than 1 percent of the total number of motorcycles it sells a year, which last year was 228,051.

This is in some part Harley’s plan, to have its flagship electric bike in the market before introducing lighter-weight and cheaper electric bikes in the years to come.




 
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I am a former Zero SR owner. Then the bike worked as intended, it was a blast to ride. I had problems with the bike from the Get-Go ranging from faulty components/assemblies and requiring constant firmware updates to fix software bugs left and right. At times it was frustrating and was not worth the headaches the bike gave me.

I was fortunate that Zero purchased the bike back under the California Lemon Law. 🍋

I got over 80% of the purchase price back, considering that I put over 23,000 miles in the 2 years that I owned it.

When any of the Japanese manufacturers offer an electric motorcycle, I am sure that they would have all of the major bugs worked out. Also, the quality will be right where you would expect it to be at. I would revisit Electric Motorcycles, if and when Honda or Yamaha offers one.
 

DirtFlier

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It's tough enough to sell any electric motorcycle but one with a $29k sticker price?
 

mikesim

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The range is the deal breaker along with the price.

Mike
 

DirtFlier

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I think there are very few newbies with that much money who want an electric bike. Maybe I'm being old fashioned in my thinking but I'd guess that most people who might consider an electric bike live in the city and want a convenient way to get around without the hassles of oil changes, fuel going bad in storage, matching revs to the gears, etc.

As a previous poster said, once Honda and/or Yamaha start marketing electric bikes the game will get serious. The breakthough market might be in India or Southeast Asia where many streets appear to be wall-to-wall scooters. I can't see them marketing at the top end of the dollar range because the numbers just are not there.
 
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It's tough enough to sell any electric motorcycle but one with a $29k sticker price?
I paid a little over $21k for a 2015 Zero SR with a lot of accessories including the extended range battery pack. It will be a while before I do that again.
 
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The range is the deal breaker along with the price.

Mike
The Zero SR that I had a total battery capacity of 13.2 KW. I was only able to get 85 miles at the most per charge riding at highway speeds 75-80 MPH. My commute to work was about 30 miles one-way. I could also plug it in at work, so that was not an issue about the range for the ride home.

Not a good bike to take on a spontaneous ride. You had to map out your route in google maps to get the total roundtrip mileage before heading out.

My bike did not have a Level-2 charger onboard. I was limited to a standard 120 VAC outlet away from home. Charging could take anywhere from 6-13 hours depending on the State Of Charge (SOC) percentage at the time it was plugged in.
 
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I think there are very few newbies with that much money who want an electric bike. Maybe I'm being old fashioned in my thinking but I'd guess that most people who might consider an electric bike live in the city and want a convenient way to get around without the hassles of oil changes, fuel going bad in storage, matching revs to the gears, etc.

As a previous poster said, once Honda and/or Yamaha start marketing electric bikes the game will get serious. The breakthough market might be in India or Southeast Asia where many streets appear to be wall-to-wall scooters. I can't see them marketing at the top end of the dollar range because the numbers just are not there.
When I had my Zero, I saved $800/year on fuel commuting to work on it every day. The company I work for also gave me $190/year under their Rideshare program too.
 

RedLdr1

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Maybe I'm being old fashioned in my thinking but I'd guess that most people who might consider an electric bike live in the city and want a convenient way to get around without the hassles of oil changes, fuel going bad in storage, matching revs to the gears, etc.
And they are buying electric bikes..as in bikes, not motorcycles. And electric scooters as well. Here is a bicycle that could easily have the luggage capacity of a NT with some optional add on soft luggage! Here is the Gold Wing version if you need more cargo storage capacity. ;)

I'm considering trading in our 3 speed bikes for a couple electric bikes to use with our motor home.
 
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Warren

Warren

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Honda and Yamaha have recently agreed to joint partnership to provide scooters in their home market. Honda will make them in one of their plants in Japan. They will brand label them for Yamaha and themselves. They mentioned that the market was shrinking and it made no sense for them to compete with each other for a dwindling share. Might not be long before they work on an electric one together.
 
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I'm fairly curious about electric bikes but not curious enough to pay that kind of $$ for a livewire and be a test mule.
I'll most likely be too old to ride when they become useful for me.

Brad
 
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I'm fairly curious about electric bikes but not curious enough to pay that kind of $$ for a livewire and be a test mule.
I'll most likely be too old to ride when they become useful for me.

Brad
I was basically that for Zero during those 2 years of ownership. During a visit to the factory near Santa Cruz, I got to meet a lot of different people in various departments. I told them all that I was an uncompensated Product Test Engineer and I was supplying them with constant data and suggested product improvements via email. They did not say a thing. :censored:
 
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Warren

Warren

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I am a former Zero SR owner. Then the bike worked as intended, it was a blast to ride. I had problems with the bike from the Get-Go ranging from faulty components/assemblies and requiring constant firmware updates to fix software bugs left and right. At times it was frustrating and was not worth the headaches the bike gave me.

I was fortunate that Zero purchased the bike back under the California Lemon Law. 🍋

I got over 80% of the purchase price back, considering that I put over 23,000 miles in the 2 years that I owned it.

When any of the Japanese manufacturers offer an electric motorcycle, I am sure that they would have all of the major bugs worked out. Also, the quality will be right where you would expect it to be at. I would revisit Electric Motorcycles, if and when Honda or Yamaha offers one.
Probably not the size your are looking for but read the link about the new Yamaha electric motorcycle and scooter.

 
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Warren

Warren

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CHICAGO (Reuters) - Harley-Davidson Inc (HOG.N) said on Monday it has stopped production and deliveries of its first electric motorcycle after discovering a glitch in the final quality checks.

The motorcycle maker said it has discovered a “non-standard condition” with LiveWire, which it began shipping to its dealers late last month, prompting additional testing and analysis.
 
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It doesn't sound like electric Harleys are off to a good start. I hope it works for them in the long haul.

Brad
 

RedLdr1

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“non-standard condition”
The story is they forgot to install the hidden Kraco sound system, playing a H-D open pipe exhaust sound loop, wired to the ignition switch. A proposed dealer installed update of large playing cards taped to the front forks failed the wash and wax bike test. High level confidential sources revealed a second recall will be forth coming for the failure to incorporate the de rigueur triple chrome plated accessories.:oops: Sometimes it just doesn't pay to play outside your core competency...:rolleyes:

At least the Harley's I've owned didn't suffer from such embarrassing, glaring design flaws!;)
 

mikesim

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Apparently it has something to do with the at home 120V charging system. There is no problem if u use the dealers charging system or an official EV charging setup. Harley has no estimate of when production can be resume or the stop sale lifted. I assume an NHTSA recall will be issued for those already in service.
 
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A proposed dealer installed update of large playing cards taped to the front forks failed the wash and wax bike test. ;)
Been there and had that done with my Zero. Friends can have a sick sense of humor.

IMG_4786.JPG

What do we got here a $#^@ comedian...

IMG_1313[1].JPG
 
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Apparently it has something to do with the at home 120V charging system. There is no problem if u use the dealers charging system or an official EV charging setup. Harley has no estimate of when production can be resume or the stop sale lifted. I assume an NHTSA recall will be issued for those already in service.
I had the only on-board charge fail one morning at work, which was 120V. I barely had enough charge leftover from the ride that morning. It failed only after a few months of having the bike, it was replaced under warranty. It could have been over $1,000 to replace it.
 

DirtFlier

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The production stop of the Live Wire, saved dealers from having too many unsellable bikes on their showroom floors over the winter! :)
 
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