Heating the core (winter riding options)

Phil Tarman

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Rob! If your heated Jacket is like my Gerbing...the coils can be moved around to change where to feel warmth......the arm wires tend to get distributed towards the rear and don't do much back there...I rearrange the wires in the jacket and move them to the front of the sleeves and the thing is much warmer...like you mentioned...the pressure of the wind makes you feel the heat. Another trick I use is to put a non-heated Vest OVER the heated jacket(and under my outer gear)...that move increases warmth quite a bit.
I've got the 3rd or 4th generation Warm and Safe heated jacket and it doesn't have heating wires. The heating elements are in the (or a) fabric layer inside the jacket. There are wires but they are the connector harnesses for gloves, pants, sockes, etc. This non-wire-heating element lets you feel heat almost instantly when you turn the heat on.

Wearing something outside the heated jacket really does make a difference with the heat the jacket produces. When I rode to Texas in late January it was 20F when I left here and got down to 10F by the time I was 70 miles down the road. It had "heated" back up all the way to 12 by the time I got to Colby, Kansas, 3 hours and 20 minutes later and stopped for the night. I was wearing my Roadgear outfit and had the Thinsulate liners zipped in and never turned the jacket all the way up.

Since then, I've been wearing a fleece jacket over the Warm and Safe and leaving the thinsulate liner out of the Roadgear riding jacket and I'm even warmer.
 

Rob

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that's interesting TJ. I bought my Gerbings equipment last year. It uses the newer micro wire stuff. I believe it is stitched inside the fabric like Phil mentioned with his Warm 'n Safe. But I'll need to check that out and see if it can get shifted around at all. Although I do like having the heat on the bicep area.

I could see how adding a layer over the heated gear, but still under the outerwear, would increase warmth - especially if it's snug-fitting - to help press the heated gear against the body. Fortunately, I am not fighting any cold with my regular setup. I am plenty warm and don't turn up the jacket liner heat past low until it's below 35 degrees - then i crank it to halfway.

But this is something I will keep in mind if I ever do find myself fighting cold. Thanks for the tip!What we can all agree on is how wonderful heated gear is!! :)
 

elizilla

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I always wear something fitted over the heated gear. Without something to keep it close to my skin, it is useless.
 

Rob

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I amend my previous statement. The current Gerbings jacket liner does indeed heat the entire arm and not just the upper.

While riding today I turned the heat up higher than usual (I generally don't need a whole lot). And I immediately felt heat in the forearms. I doubt it has the ability to "kick in" when it's turned up high; I probably just never felt or noticed it with it on lower heat settings.

Anyway just wanted to clarify since I clearly posted incorrect information on Gerbing's product!
 
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...

Rob! If your heated Jacket is like my Gerbing...the coils can be moved around to change where to feel warmth......the arm wires tend to get distributed towards the rear and don't do much back there...I rearrange the wires in the jacket and move them to the front of the sleeves and the thing is much warmer...like you mentioned...the pressure of the wind makes you feel the heat. Another trick I use is to put a non-heated Vest OVER the heated jacket(and under my outer gear)...that move increases warmth quite a bit.
Hmmm. My Gerbing is the "old" style with the small round wires (not the "micro-wire") but they don't shift or move. They are panels sewn into the jacket liner's lining.

Those heated jacket liners are nice and warm but do next to nothing to keep the wind off of you. I always wear my liner under my textile riding jacket (Olympia Airglide). If it gets real cold outside, I add the wind-proof liner to my riding jacket and that makes a HUGE difference in keeping the wind out and warmth in. Same holds true for the pant liners.

I've gotten real spoiled with the heated gear!
 

Phil Tarman

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TJ, I've got Warm and Safe stuff (mostly because they sold it at the Iron Butt Association International Meeting in Denver a couple of years ago, but also because for a long time they made the only reliable controller for heated gear). It's been great for me.
 

Rob

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I get the feeling they all use the same technology now (Stella mesh micro and nano wire which replace carbon fiber mesh I think).

I went with Gerbings because they developed their tech for a Dept of Defense contract so I figured it was probably held to high standards.

I get the distinct feeling it doesn't matter though. They seen interchangeable from what I have read elsewhere. I would say basing it on the design as well as the controllers is safe rather than the underlying technology. Although it wouldn't surprise me if the controllers were interchangeable too.
 
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RedLdr1

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I went with Feelings because they developed their tech for a Dept of Defense contract so I figured it was probably held to high standards.
When I was a young Squad Leader I had a Command Sergeant Major (CSM) who like to remind us everything we wearing, carrying, and that our very lives depended on, was only there because it was the "Lowest Bid"...:eek1: Not the most inspiring "pep talk" I ever heard but a good "reality check" as the man said...

That being said Military Specification, or MilSpec, is generally a pretty good standard, especially in electronics...
 

elizilla

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I know nothing about the First Gear heated stuff. I have owned multiple heated jackets and vests, though. Here is my experience in order of what I owned and when:

Gerbing: In 2000, I acquired a Gerbing jacket at the moto show. At the time, Gerbing was selling trollers from Warmnsafe, and that is what I got with the jacket. It was great and I wore that stuff for years, but eventually developed some complaints. 1. The neck fire thing, same as T.J., and handled similarly - I needed more than just a turtleneck, but a bandanna around my neck over the turtleneck was adequate. 2. The power cord came out inside the jacket, which meant that when I tucked the jacket in I had to somehow route it under the hem of the jacket then back up and out over the waistband of my pants. 3. The fit of the jacket, which they call unisex but really, it is men's. It had a straight torso with elastic around the bottom hem. Fully half the heat in the torso, was below my waist, and the cut of the jacket meant it was a real production to get it tucked in under my riding pants and smoothed down so that I didn't end up with half the heating element bunched in a roll at my waist. Once I got it stuffed in there correctly, snaking the power cord down and under and then up and out, was always hard. And I needed a middle layer that was fitted, to snug it up to my body, because it fit like a sack. On the bright side, it is nice and warm to have heat all the way down to where your butt touches the seat. But the constant pulling and tugging and bunching, eventually caused the jacket to develop a break in the wire and quit working. That was after about ten years of heavy use, though, so I really can't complain. I did not buy a new Gerbing jacket because the new ones are thicker, with some insulation over the heating elements, which would make it even harder to juggle the lower half of the jacket. I took the jacket apart to see what was inside and it really does have tangled up wires that are not very firmly anchored.

Gerbing has also, since I got my jacket back in 2000, started making their own trollers rather than sourcing the warmnsafe ones. I have not tried the new trollers, being 100% satisfied with the warmnsafe trollers, and the price being the same.

Widder: In 2001 or 2002, I acquired a Widder vest, used, as part of a package deal with some Widder gloves I wanted. The vest was nowhere near as good as the Gerbing jacket I already owned, so I gave it away. Widder is now gone, so they're not really a choice any more anyway. But there are a lot of used vests out there, they were once super common, so maybe someone here has one or will get one as a castoff. They're out there.

Gr8Design: This was the new technology at the time, using carbon fiber fabric for the heating elements. The vest works great, though it's a vest, not a jacket, and it's kinda stiff. The heating elements distribute the heat much better. But, it's not available any more, and they're not common on the used market, so praising it doesn't much matter.

Warmnsafe. I bought a Warmnsafe jacket because they had one in a women's cut and I like their trollers so I was inclined to give them a shot. It fit a LOT better than the Gerbing and used less power. And the power cord exits the jacket on the outside! Hallelujah! It would have been every bit as warm, too, except that it was shorter, which saved me a lot of tucking-in-hem-juggling, which was great, but didn't warm my butt like the Gerbing did because it didn't extend that far down. I still would have preferred it except for one thing: It had thick wires that ran across my shoulder blades, under my leather jacket's armor, which irritated me. A lot. So I could only wear it when I was wearing one of my softer jackets that didn't have armor plates that closely hug my shoulders. I eventually gave it away to someone shorter who wore a softer riding jacket. I wouldn't rule out buying another of their jackets, though - they have gone through two or three iterations since the jacket I bought, and they may well have fixed this issue with the shoulder wires. I do think they showed the most thoughtfulness in their design, of any of the jackets I have owned, which bodes well for them resolving issues like this shoulder wire thing.

Powerlet: This is what I am currently wearing. It is a men's cut, once again, so it has some of the tucking-in-hem-juggling issues, especially since they also followed Gerbing's lead, putting the power cord on the inside front of the jacket. (Since I know the guys at Powerlet, I have told them repeatedly and strenuously how much I hate having the cord on the inside. :) They didn't understand it until I showed them how I was tucking their jacket into my pants. Men's pants, the waists are lower, so guys don't have to do this.) However the Powerlet jacket does NOT have elastic at the hem, and is not quite so long, so the tucking-in is not as difficult. The shape of the jacket is better; it fits properly closely without needing something fitted to go over the top and snug it up to my body. (Though a snugging-up layer still improves it.) The heating elements are softer, I don't get a sense of tangled up wires at my waist. And the neck is the right amount heated, I don't have to shield myself from it.

So as you can see, I have not found the perfect heated jacket yet. But even the worst ones are vastly better than doing without. My advice is to examine some heated vests and jackets, try 'em on if you can, and get what works for you.
 
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elizilla

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Oh, and the controllers are interchangeable between all the brands I know of, except Widder. Widder wired things in series instead of parallel so their controllers were different.
 

Rob

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Gerbings connectors stick out from the bottom of the jacket. Guessing this was a recent change. I've seen pictures of them on the inside and can imagine the frustration you speak of.
 

elizilla

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Yeah, why, why, why, do they have to do the connectors in this stupid way? I mean, it's a good spot, on the left side of the stomach a little above the waist. But it should be on the OUTSIDE. Duh.

When I get around to it, I intend to open up my Powerlet jacket and see if I can move the connector to the same spot only outside, without damaging anything essential.
 

Phil Tarman

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The Warm and Safe jackets with the small wires or micro-wire or conducting fabric are great.

I think I've got the 3rd or 4th generation jacket. It's designed, they sayt, to be "temperature-neutral" and sorta' is. To temperatures up to about 60-65, it's just "there" if the heat isn't turned on.

I had a Gerbings jacket which didn't put out as much heat (60 or 65W compared to 90W for the Warm and Safe jacket) and sometimes the wires would burn my neck and the inside of my elbows. If I always wore a turtle-neck that wasn't much of a problem. I think I wore it for 5-6 years and then one August day between Thunder Bay and Duluth, the jacket came apart along one of the side seams. I guess I put too much strain on it. :)

It was later in the month when I bought the Warm and Safe Gen 2 jacket at the Iron Butt Association Meeting in Denver. I upgraded to Gen 4 (I think) last year when they offered a "trade-in" program that let me buy the new technology for about 2/3 of the new price.

I'll stick with Warm and Safe.
 

elizilla

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I think the warmnsafe jacket I had was their lower power version. I don't think the wires across the shoulder blades were the heating element wires. I think they were the feed wires for something in the sleeves, perhaps the heated glove connectors at the wrist.
 
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Thanks everyone for the great information here...Pardon my mis-quote on the first gear product. Looking forward to trying on some new heated jackets!

Hope Santa gets my list this year :)
I believe Gerbings is the only one that sells exterior heated clothing (excluding gloves) versus just liners. The exterior clothing (jacket / pants) are a nice option if you don't typically wear a riding jacket/pants to place over a liner.
 
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I have been thinking about heated gear for a couple years. I finally broke down and bought heated gloves, Jacket (no liner), and pants liner, and heated insoles. I went with gerbing (microwire). I ordered the gloves and jacket first, the gloves are great! I loved the jacket too but I ordered a size too small. I was really dissapointed to have to send it back. It looked like very high quality gear so I ordered the pants liner and insoles. I wanted to order the matching pants, but they were out of stock everywhere. Looking forward to being comfortable without the layers.
 
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I have a Widder vest that has worked well for three years. As Katherine notes they are out I'd business but if you have a chance to pick one up used and cheap, I'd go for it. I ride year round in cold temps. The Widder has been solid.
 

Phil Tarman

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I think the warmnsafe jacket I had was their lower power version. I don't think the wires across the shoulder blades were the heating element wires. I think they were the feed wires for something in the sleeves, perhaps the heated glove connectors at the wrist.
That sounds right, Katherine. I've got wires in mine, but they're for gloves and pants. Now Warm n Safe has them stowed in little zippered pocket on the inside of the sleeves and on inside of the bottom front of the jacket.
 
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Gabe

Gabe

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Just wanted to say thanks to everyone in this thread for the valuable advice. I ended up getting a long sleeved Tour Master Synergy 2.0 Heated Liner With Collar... kept me very on my recent windy 36 degree weather test ride. Looking forward to more winter riding soon (as soon as the snow stops and melts some). ;-) I could only turn the thing up halfway, maybe to the 4th (out of 6th) setting I believe when doing 60 mph without it scorching my back. Now my only issue is needing warmer socks! ;-)

Thanks again guys!

- Gabe
 
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