Honda CVCC returns?

DirtFlier

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Those of you of similar vintage to me probably remember the first CVCC used on Civic then later Accords. Now, the same general idea - an ignition prechamber - might return but for a completely different reason and purpose. :)


ps. didn't some sage person once comment that "...there are no truly new ideas, only old ideas that get recycled."
 
The fact is that many past ideas were ahead of there time. The required technology to make them more feasible hadn't caught up to the original idea. In many cases these ideas require computer timing and control. The methods of mechanical control of yesteryears weren't just not enough. Many were marginal at best.
 
The fact is that many past ideas were ahead of there time. The required technology to make them more feasible hadn't caught up to the original idea. In many cases these ideas require computer timing and control. The methods of mechanical control of yesteryears weren't just not enough. Many were marginal at best.
That is a good point. The DB 601 engine in the BF 109 fighter used direct fuel injection, while the early Spitfires used a carburator. The US took a later mark Rolls Royce Merlin and had Packard build it with its throttle body fuel injection (called at the time pressure carburators). They stuck it in the Mustang. All of these were mechanical, of course. But they were far from "marginal". But it took computers to make them sing.
 
Interesting technology. As an aside,
Toyota’s Chief Says Electric Vehicles Are Overhyped
TOKYO— Toyota TM -0.56% Motor Corp.’s leader criticized what he described as excessive hype over electric vehicles, saying advocates failed to consider the carbon emitted by generating electricity and the costs of an EV transition.
Toyota President Akio Toyoda said Japan would run out of electricity in the summer if all cars were running on electric power. The infrastructure needed to support a fleet consisting entirely of EVs would cost Japan between ¥14 trillion and ¥37 trillion, the equivalent of $135 billion to $358 billion, he said.
“When politicians are out there saying, ‘Let’s get rid of all cars using gasoline,’ do they understand this?” Mr. Toyoda said Thursday at a year-end news conference in his capacity as chairman of the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association.
He said if Japan is too hasty in banning gasoline-powered cars, “the current business model of the car industry is going to collapse,” causing the loss of millions of jobs.

Advocates of EVs say they can be charged at night when electricity demand is low and, over time, can grow in tandem with other green technologies such as solar power.
Local news reports in early December said the Japanese government was about to announce a ban on the sale of new gasoline-powered cars starting in 2035, while it would still allow hybrid gas-electric cars. Such a ban would follow the state of California and countries such as the U.K.

But no announcement has come amid industry resistance. Officials at the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry said they haven’t made a decision on the future of gasoline cars.
EV maker Tesla Inc. passed Toyota this year as the world’s most valuable auto maker by market capitalization.
In a country such as Japan that gets most of its electricity from burning coal and natural gas, EVs don’t help the environment, Mr. Toyoda said. “The more EVs we build, the worse carbon dioxide gets,” he said.
He said he feared government regulations would make cars a “flower on a high summit”—out of reach for the average person.
With models like the Prius, Toyota is a leader in hybrid cars, which combine a gasoline engine with an electric motor and can be refueled at traditional gas stations. It doesn’t sell pure battery EVs for the mass market in the U.S. or Japan, although it does have a model that runs on a hydrogen-powered fuel cell.
 
Electricity for charging the batteries in electric vehicles is often provided by coal burning power plants so is it really saving the planet?

The Chevy Volt never reached even a tiny fraction of the popularity of the Toyota Prius, but to me it held a lot of promise. In theory, an electric car with a small gasoline engine to charge the batteries should be able to go coast-to-coast without the usual problems related to finding a charging stations then having to wait hours and hours until the batteries reach Full Charge.
 
Interesting technology. As an aside,
Toyota’s Chief Says Electric Vehicles Are Overhyped
TOKYO— Toyota TM -0.56% Motor Corp.’s leader criticized what he described as excessive hype over electric vehicles, saying advocates failed to consider the carbon emitted by generating electricity and the costs of an EV transition.
<snip>
The issues start way before in the producing of a/ny (conventional) new vehicle...
- the bauxite mining, transport and production of aluminum...
- ore mining, transports and steel production
- various alloys, copper, glass, plastics, paints, etc, etc...
- the applied amounts of energy for the actual productions at the plants (casting, punching, pressing, hydro-forming, etc... )
- the so called "recycling" of the old car (in reality not happening, they'll get shipped to eastern Europe and Africa and kept running there...)

So by the time we've produced a new conventional car, we've blown out so much pollution, we could keep the old one running for another millennium and still wouldn't be there...

For EVs the (environmental highly critical) mining of cobalt, lithium, the transports and battery production, as well as building the charging infrastructure add to above list...
But everyone carefully omits the total footprint...
 
I was working at a GM dealer service department when the Volt arrived, having had a chance to drive it and look it over i was impressed.
 
Transportation has made great increases in efficiency and there will be more in the future, but there is no free lunch.
Most everything is a trade off.

Brad
 
Electricity for charging the batteries in electric vehicles is often provided by coal burning power plants so is it really saving the planet?

The Chevy Volt never reached even a tiny fraction of the popularity of the Toyota Prius, but to me it held a lot of promise. In theory, an electric car with a small gasoline engine to charge the batteries should be able to go coast-to-coast without the usual problems related to finding a charging stations then having to wait hours and hours until the batteries reach Full Charge.

When I worked in Rocky Ford, Colorado, one of my church members had a Volt and loved it. It was a nice looking car, she said it was very comfortable. She also said that she only put gas in it about twice a year. Around town it never burned any gas and when she took it on longer trips she said she could go about 600 miles without having to fill the tank. I was always dubious -- it just didn't seem possible to me. But she was our church treasurer and the church's books always balanced.
 
According to Wikipedia, GM sold 157k Volts in the US to the end of 2019. The Volt runs on all-battery power until available voltage drops to a certain level, after approx 40-miles, then the gas engine kicks in automatically to charge the batteries while the car is still in motion. It has a 12-gal gas tank which is honestly much larger than I had imagined.

 
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It is good to actually hear of someone in the automotive industry speaking honestly about their vision of the future of electric vehicles, the timeframe for introducing them and the actual environmental impact of doing so.

Seagrass
 
As I remember back when we had large block V-8's, the actual HP required to cruise was a small fraction of what HP was availabe. The excess was used for acceleration, top speed, etc. In that sense alone, hybrids are an efficient alternative. Additional HP available for acceleration, passing, climbing hills, towing, etc is in the form of auxiliary power. Electric motors have great torque but the energy density storage for batteries is no where near that of diesel or gasoline. More energy dense batteries might solve this.

Whenever you convert energy from one form to another there are efficiency losses. An IC Motor converts chemical energy from gasoline into mechanical energy. Electric driven vehicles have any number of energy conversions: chemical, hydro mechanical, aerodynamic mechanical to high voltage electricity, converted to lower voltages, then the electricity is converted into chemical energy for storage in a battery and then back to electricity which the motors turn into mechanical energy. As ST1100Y said, you have to consider the entire system. (In the US, grass fed lamb from Australia is more energy efficient meat than lamb [grain fed] in the US, even after shipping.) You must include drilling, refining, transport, facilities, maintenance, etc. in considerations.
 
Modern F-1 cars use hybrid power with the electric motors supplying approx 200 HP for additional push. Besides a huge alternator for battery charging, they use regenerative braking which is via the rear wheels. Using the rear wheels to charge the batteries can be tricky because it essentially adds to the braking force so finding the proper brake bias can be tricky. I would guess that the regenerative braking function could be turned OFF if the batteries are up to full charge but that's only a guess on my part.
 
That's all an interesting idea, or leads to one. Or several.

IIRC, as Popular Science reported in the early 1970s...a full-size car, cruising at 65 mph, steady speed, level ground, needed about 14 horsepower to hold the speed.

All the additional gasoline and power used by the big V8s of the time, was wasted on internal friction from engine revs less than optimum (three-speed transmissions, or two-speed Powerglide automatics) or other sub-optimal setups.

First thing that comes to mind...a conventional FWD powertrain, with electric motors to the rear wheels. A large alternator tied to the engine, in addition to the mechanical transmission. And a battery pack or capacitor setup.

Acceleration, done with electric- and mechanical. Up to speed. From there, the gas engine, much smaller than a single-power gas engine, can loaf and also charge back the batteries/capacitors.

Alternately, a vehicle could be set up with just an electric drive. Engine runs an alternator; alternator feeds current to four motors on the four wheels. Again, a capacitor or battery set to cushion high demand settings, could help.

But, no mechanical transmission. ALSO no long wait at plug-in charging stations.
Nissan has something similar to what you are describing. It is an electric car you can charge, but it also has a gas engine driving a generator, should you not have access to a charging station.
 
In the era before catalytic converters, CVCC was pretty forward-thinking technology. I'll give Honda credit where it's due.
Indeed (also Ferrari had a 12cyl engine w/out converter beating the CAT emission limits back then...)
But as far as I can observe over here, will even the CVCC not meet the dawning EUR7 emission limits... :cautious:
 
Out of left field ... I remember a program about a college engineering competition concerning the design of the most fuel efficient vehicle within certain parameters. The winner was a vehicle driven by hydraulic motor(s?). A smal IC motor would run at a constant speed and drive a hydraulic pump which would charged a large accumulator which would feed the hydraulic motors with a variable valve. Downhill, the motors would as pumps to help charge the accumulator. It was not a very big vehicle.
 
Many modern mowers made for homeowner use now tout "hydrostatic drive." All the zero-turn models use it. Even my Honda walk-behind mower that I only use for tight work around bushes, trees, flowerbeds has a form of hydrostatic drive and it's around 20 years old.
 
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