Interesting differences by Honda on oil

[prof98801]

After reading what people on the forums say about the changing of oil before or after winter I decided to contact various Honda motorcycle service departments for their recommendation. Two to one said to wait until after winter to change oil/filter.

New Hampshire wait until spring Colorado Boulder change before winter
Oregon wait until spring Utah change before winter
Iowa wait until spring Ohio change before winter
Colorado Denver wait until spring
Washington wait until spring
Nebraska wait until spring
Local service dept wait until spring

 

[charlie b]

I would only worry about it if being stored for years not months.

 

[mikesim]

Thinking about this logically, there is no right or wrong answer, it just depends on what you feel comfy with. All modern oils that meet API specs have corrosion inhibitors that neutralize the acids that are a by-product of combustion. This is measured by the TBN (total base number) of the oil. When changed according to the manufacturers recommendations, the oil retains enough corrosion inhibitors to neutralize any acids that may be present, thus the oil in the crankcase is not acidic. When the engine is not running (ala storage), no further acids are created thus the oil remains non-acidic during storage.

After having the oil analyzed several times on my Dodge/Cummins with 7500 mile change intervals the lab reported a still robust TBN of >7.0 which indicates I probably could have went another 7,500 miles with using up the anti-corrosion additives.

Bottom line.... do whatever yanks yer crank.

Mike

 

[karl]

one of the things you can find in used oil is sulfuric acid. Why would you want that in the sump as your bike waits for you to come out to play?

 

[Mellow]

I would only worry about it if being stored for years not months.

+1

Thinking about this logically, there is no right or wrong answer, it just depends on what you feel comfy with. All modern oils that meet API specs have corrosion inhibitors that neutralize the acids that are a by-product of combustion. This is measured by the TBN (total base number) of the oil. When changed according to the manufacturers recommendations, the oil retains enough corrosion inhibitors to neutralize any acids that may be present, thus the oil in the crankcase is not acidic. When the engine is not running (ala storage), no further acids are created thus the oil remains non-acidic during storage.

After having the oil analyzed several times on my Dodge/Cummins with 7500 mile change intervals the lab reported a still robust TBN of >7.0 which indicates I probably could have went another 7,500 miles with using up the anti-corrosion additives.

Bottom line.... do whatever yanks yer crank.

Mike

+1

one of the things you can find in used oil is sulfuric acid. Why would you want that in the sump as your bike waits for you to come out to play?

Since used oil is always in your bike after the 1st start up after an oil change, what difference does it make? I don't see it myself. It's oil, no big deal IMO... Fuel is something else though, I would put some stabil on that.

 

[Lorien]

Perhaps one thing overlooked in the discussion the the precipitating out of suspended solids. For better or worse gravity will have its say with particles in suspension over long periods of time. This would be my main concern in winter storage. The less of this gunk hanging around the better. At the bottom of the crank case not to bad; at the bottom of a bearing race or other frictional surface that is another matter entirely.

 

[mikesim]

the owners manuel says to change the oil every 8000 miles or the 1st yr, whichever comes first. Is it ok to leave the oil in there if it takes me 2 yrs to put 8000 miles on the bike?

What the manual means is that if you don't accumulate 8,000 miles within a year, then you should at least change your oil on an annual basis.

Mike

 

[mikesim]

one of the things you can find in used oil is sulfuric acid. Why would you want that in the sump as your bike waits for you to come out to play?

Yes, but the acid has been neutralized by the oil additives thus rendering them harmless.

Mike

 

[mikesim]

Perhaps one thing overlooked in the discussion the the precipitating out of suspended solids. For better or worse gravity will have its say with particles in suspension over long periods of time. This would be my main concern in winter storage. The less of this gunk hanging around the better. At the bottom of the crank case not to bad; at the bottom of a bearing race or other frictional surface that is another matter entirely.

Most solids of any significant size have been captured by the oil filter thus keeping them from harming the engine. The particles that haven't been sequestered by the filter are captured by the oil molecules and are held in suspension by the molecule itself.

Mike

 

[karl]

So we all agree that the oil we drain is as good as what we put in so why do we get all excited about changing it every X miles...

 

[mikesim]

So we all agree that the oil we drain is as good as what we put in so why do we get all excited about changing it every X miles...

Because the additive package is depleted with use until it is no longer able to neutralize the acids, plus in wet clutch applications where the engine oil also supplies lubrication for the transmission, the oil molecules are sheared apart over time and no longer have the integrity of new oil.

Mike

 

[karl]

Don't recall ever calling an engineer an idiot, not here anyway. The ones I have spoken to tell me that the oil we drain is just as good as what comes out of the ground. It is now dirty and the additives have been used up. I have always found following a manufactures recommendation to be a good thing. The dealers are not the manufacturer and most of the Honda dealers out there seem pretty free wheeling to me. I withdraw my dog now.

 

[charlie b]

I love oil threads!

When storing a bike the last thing to worry about is old oil. The parts that go bad during storage are those seals and stuff that are not in contact with the oil.

If you are REALLY concerned about your bike's well being then go out and start it up once a month, let it run until warm. Move the bike so the gears and other bits get a chance to have a 'bath' in the lube. Then shut back down. It is preferred to put some load on the engine but if you could do that you'd be out riding

 

[Chucksklrst]

use ethanol free gasoline, still treated with a stabilizer. I put the bikes on their center stands too.

Gotta run as I'm riding today!

Sam

Sam where in the world do you find ethanol free gasoline. Don't think there is a place here in Colorado that has it. Every thing is 10% and even some 15% is showing up more and more.

 

[charlie b]

Sam,

I am probably the polar opposite. I started using Mobil 1 back in the mid-80's. Oil change intervals were/are anywhere from 10k to 25k miles. Around a million miles on various cars/trucks and never had an engine problem.

 

[ARKNT]

ethanol free gasoline

I notice here in Arkansas several gas stations are advertising ethanol free gas. They are scatered around. I would also look at the pump close because I have seen some Shell stations advertise ethanol free and other Shell have ethanol free in the higher octane only.

Brad

 

[karl]

All the crud that rides the Jet stream ends up in our air so we have no choice on an Oxygenator in our fuel here it is required by Federal Law. Mass has outlawed MTBE due to the water pollution "issues" so ethanol it is. Other than the fact that it is made from the food we like and our food eats as well we have to learn to live with it for a while. Was a time not so long ago and I could get the non ethanol stuff by driving for a while. No longer.

The bright side is not much of this ends up in the oil these days...

 

[Phil Tarman]

.... even some 15% is showing up more and more.

Aww, man! I haven't run into that yet. Tell me it ain't so!

 

[Rider Bill]

Simpler solution .... ride all year.

 

[Phil Tarman]

Works for me. In the last three years, the longest I've gone without riding has been a bit over two weeks. I did put the NT on a trickle charger toward the end of the 2nd week last year.