JQL
Growing old disgracefully
I've just ordered a replacement Lithium Battery from Amazon. It should arrive on Tuesday. I'll let you know how it goes...
Lithium replacement battery
- Thread starter JQL
- Start date
Borrowed from Snowbum http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/newbattery.htm he an expert on BMW Airheads but lots of generate information.
check out this before you decide if the lithium battery is really needed in an NT.
https://youtu.be/yYbn_M7rm2c
check out this before you decide if the lithium battery is really needed in an NT.
https://youtu.be/yYbn_M7rm2c
OP
OP
JQL
Growing old disgracefully
According to Skyrich "No fire, No explosion" with their batteries as they aren't Lithium Ion. They are LiFePO4 which isn't the same...
http://www.skyrichbattery.com/p9/Frequently-Asked-Questions/pages.html
From Wikipedia:
http://www.skyrichbattery.com/p9/Frequently-Asked-Questions/pages.html
From Wikipedia:
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OP
OP
JQL
Growing old disgracefully
Before pressing the "Buy Now" button I did a bit of research:
I also thought I heard a shot in the video before the "reaction" started
It depends on how they set them off. Usually it is from overcharging. In that case there is a pretty loud pop when the battery case gives way. Then the exposure to air accelerates the reaction. FWIW, water does not put it out. Cover it with sand.
They can also go off if the output is too high, such as a short on a full battery.
Yes, I have had several go off on me, all from overcharging. Which is why the charging limiters installed by a battery mfg are so important when installed in an appliance or vehidle. On model airplanes we do not have that on the battery, the circuit is in the charger.
So, no, they did not have to fire a bullet at them.
They can also go off if the output is too high, such as a short on a full battery.
Yes, I have had several go off on me, all from overcharging. Which is why the charging limiters installed by a battery mfg are so important when installed in an appliance or vehidle. On model airplanes we do not have that on the battery, the circuit is in the charger.
So, no, they did not have to fire a bullet at them.
I had three lithiums. I had two of them in bikes that had a slight parasitic draw, and within two weeks (without firing them up or having them on a charger), both batteries were dead. Beyond hope, even with the special charger I bought. Third one was in my Rebel. Worked great for about two seasons. Took it out in the winter and kept it in the house. Then one day, I was riding along a somewhat lumpy USFS road. I've been on this same road on this same bike twice in the past (with AGM battery). Parked the bike for about 10 minutes to take some pictures. It wouldn't re-start. Had to roll it down the road a piece and bump start it. Got home. Again, it wouldn't re-start. Took the battery cover off and the battery was really, really hot and somewhat swollen.
That was it. Until the technology gets better, I won't use them. Close to $500 wasted.
Yesterday, we were at the local battery store, picking up an Odyssey for our tractor. Chatting with the employee, he said that they haven't had great luck with the lithiums. Only ones so far that they have zero returns on were the Battery Tender lithiums.
Maybe there is hope. haha
That was it. Until the technology gets better, I won't use them. Close to $500 wasted.
Yesterday, we were at the local battery store, picking up an Odyssey for our tractor. Chatting with the employee, he said that they haven't had great luck with the lithiums. Only ones so far that they have zero returns on were the Battery Tender lithiums.
Maybe there is hope. haha
I too will let others be the test pilots for these batteries.
The video does make them look dangerous but even a normal battery can explode if the conditions are right (short across the terminals, jumper cables backword). The explosion blowing acid around is not a comforting picture. Long ago I dropped a wrench across the terminals of a car battery. It didn't explode but imediately melted the lead terminal. A good example of the stored energy in a battery of any type. Be careful with them. Only 12 volts but a lot of amps and a lot of energy.
Brad
The video does make them look dangerous but even a normal battery can explode if the conditions are right (short across the terminals, jumper cables backword). The explosion blowing acid around is not a comforting picture. Long ago I dropped a wrench across the terminals of a car battery. It didn't explode but imediately melted the lead terminal. A good example of the stored energy in a battery of any type. Be careful with them. Only 12 volts but a lot of amps and a lot of energy.
Brad
I may be repeating myself (again), but here goes. Back in ’77, when I was working in the oilfield, I rode a workboat from Cameron, LA, to an offshore drilling platform to repair one of our company’s degassers. The boat ride took about 15 hours but I got “lucky” for the return trip. Just as I finished my repair, a PHI (Petroleum Helicopters Incorporated) Hughes 500 (the military called these OH-6s) landed to deliver a mudlogger. I stuck my tools in the backseat, hopped into the left seat and we were off. The flight back would normally take about an hour-twenty minutes. Not this time!
We’d been flying for a little over 20 minutes when a yellow caution light came on. It said “Battery Overheat.” The pilot started turning things off – radio, lights, generator -- everything except what we needed to keep flying. As he was doing that, he turned around and we headed back out toward the platform we had left. Just as we got there, the light went out. The pilot landed, left the engine running, and got out to top off our fuel tank.
We took off again and this time he left everything turned off all the way back to Cameron. I asked him what could have happened if the battery had continued to overheat and he told me that my seat would have gotten hot since the battery was under it, but that it probably would have melted the airframe and fallen out before we’d have caught on fire. I figured he was exaggerating to give me a thrill.
When I got home, I called my dad, who was a corporate pilot flying a Mitsubishi MU-2. I told him what had happened and he told me that battery overheating did sometimes lead to fires. Lithium batteries were light, but had problems if they were overcharged.
I think I’ll skip them. I don’t need to save 3 pounds of battery weight until I lose a hundred or so of my own weight.
We’d been flying for a little over 20 minutes when a yellow caution light came on. It said “Battery Overheat.” The pilot started turning things off – radio, lights, generator -- everything except what we needed to keep flying. As he was doing that, he turned around and we headed back out toward the platform we had left. Just as we got there, the light went out. The pilot landed, left the engine running, and got out to top off our fuel tank.
We took off again and this time he left everything turned off all the way back to Cameron. I asked him what could have happened if the battery had continued to overheat and he told me that my seat would have gotten hot since the battery was under it, but that it probably would have melted the airframe and fallen out before we’d have caught on fire. I figured he was exaggerating to give me a thrill.
When I got home, I called my dad, who was a corporate pilot flying a Mitsubishi MU-2. I told him what had happened and he told me that battery overheating did sometimes lead to fires. Lithium batteries were light, but had problems if they were overcharged.
I think I’ll skip them. I don’t need to save 3 pounds of battery weight until I lose a hundred or so of my own weight.
Just to be a bit less misleading, please indicate if your battery problems were due to LiPo, LiIon, or LiFe batteries. There is a big difference in safety, especially with the LiFe construction.
LiFe batteries do not produce violent flames when overcharged. But, they also do not have quite as much output in current for the same cell size as LiPo. That is changing quickly.
I would not use a LiPo battery on a bike or even in any appliance that I have. LiIon I use all the time in computers, phones, etc, etc. But, I would not use one on a vehicle. The current high output LiPo and LiIon batteries are not intended to stay at full charge for extended periods when not being used. The will 'expand' a bit and be more susceptible to fires. This is why some of the battery jumper units are failing by cracking the plastic cases.
LiFe I would consider for a vehicle. But, you need to size them properly. Most mfgs undersize the battery specs so you get one that makes for difficult starting when cold. There was one mfg that had a heater installed on the battery that would warm it up before starting. They went away, probably cause their batteries were $400.
Most lithium batteries do not like residual discharge. If you have something that drains power with the switch off then I'd suggest a battery tender (of the proper type) for more than a day or two of sitting.
I chose an Odyssey battery when I needed a new one. I also went to about half the size of the wet battery I had been using. I have had enough issues with charging on my bike that I did not want the added issues of a lithium battey on top of that. The other reason was cost. To get a proper size LiFe battery for cold starting would have been over $400.
PS rechargeable battery fires are not new. NiCd's were famous for violent reactions when shorted. NiMh batteries would burn hot enough to melt aluminum when overcharged. And, yes, lead acid batteries (wet and AGM) will leak and eat anything under them. Wet lead acid batteries, it not stored fully charged can freeze and crack their cases. Shorting them results in violent fires if the case is compromised.
LiFe batteries do not produce violent flames when overcharged. But, they also do not have quite as much output in current for the same cell size as LiPo. That is changing quickly.
I would not use a LiPo battery on a bike or even in any appliance that I have. LiIon I use all the time in computers, phones, etc, etc. But, I would not use one on a vehicle. The current high output LiPo and LiIon batteries are not intended to stay at full charge for extended periods when not being used. The will 'expand' a bit and be more susceptible to fires. This is why some of the battery jumper units are failing by cracking the plastic cases.
LiFe I would consider for a vehicle. But, you need to size them properly. Most mfgs undersize the battery specs so you get one that makes for difficult starting when cold. There was one mfg that had a heater installed on the battery that would warm it up before starting. They went away, probably cause their batteries were $400.
Most lithium batteries do not like residual discharge. If you have something that drains power with the switch off then I'd suggest a battery tender (of the proper type) for more than a day or two of sitting.
I chose an Odyssey battery when I needed a new one. I also went to about half the size of the wet battery I had been using. I have had enough issues with charging on my bike that I did not want the added issues of a lithium battey on top of that. The other reason was cost. To get a proper size LiFe battery for cold starting would have been over $400.
PS rechargeable battery fires are not new. NiCd's were famous for violent reactions when shorted. NiMh batteries would burn hot enough to melt aluminum when overcharged. And, yes, lead acid batteries (wet and AGM) will leak and eat anything under them. Wet lead acid batteries, it not stored fully charged can freeze and crack their cases. Shorting them results in violent fires if the case is compromised.
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OP
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JQL
Growing old disgracefully
The one I've ordered is LiFe...