mikesim
Site Supporter
After eight years and >100K miles the sun has taken a toll on the color of my speedo/tach needles, they are faded quite badly. Anybody ever repainted 'em? What paint did you use? Any caveats?
Mike
Mike
Meter needles fading
- Thread starter mikesim
- Start date
junglejim
Site Supporter
Mike, Ive heard that before and each time from some old person who's eyes are fading.
Aren't you glad you asked? - so you could get some helpful information.
Sorry to be a "smart A" but my wife has been in AZ all week and I have been without adult supervision all week.
Aren't you glad you asked? - so you could get some helpful information.
Sorry to be a "smart A" but my wife has been in AZ all week and I have been without adult supervision all week.
OP
OP
mikesim
Site Supporter
Gee, Jim... With friends like you, who needs enemies ;>)
Although most of my career was spent designing door panels, I spent 2-1/2 years designing instrument clusters.....Ford Exploder, Lincoln Continental....
The pointers are clear polycarbonate with a red 'hot foil' applied to them. Basically, kind of a mylar that is stamped onto the pointers, applied with heat and pressure. They are lit from an LED blasting light up through the shaft. This is called a 'light pipe', as the light follows the polycarb.
If you were to paint them, I'd suggest painting them semi-translucent red. The problem would be that they will be very blotchy when lit up in the dark, because you'll never get the paint applied evenly. Now, could you apply some transparent red plastic to them? Maybe....
The pointers are clear polycarbonate with a red 'hot foil' applied to them. Basically, kind of a mylar that is stamped onto the pointers, applied with heat and pressure. They are lit from an LED blasting light up through the shaft. This is called a 'light pipe', as the light follows the polycarb.
If you were to paint them, I'd suggest painting them semi-translucent red. The problem would be that they will be very blotchy when lit up in the dark, because you'll never get the paint applied evenly. Now, could you apply some transparent red plastic to them? Maybe....
OP
OP
mikesim
Site Supporter
Actually, I found a source for speedo needle paint online. A special fluorescent that will make my needles stand out like new. A $2.50 vial will do about four bikes. When I'm finished with the vial I will be glad to share the remainder with other forum members.... 'ceptin' a certain smartass from WI !! :>)
Also be careful how much paint you use. Many a gauge has been ruined by paint adding so much weight it no longer reads correctly...
OP
OP
mikesim
Site Supporter
Are you certain the NT's needles are translucent? The needle paint website cautioned you about that. If translucent needles are painted with their paint, they are dark at night. I presume then that the polycarb needles have the hot foil applied to the underside of the needle?
Mike
At my age many things are fading, only the accomplishments I brag about that no one was there to see (mostly lies) are clear. Did I ever tell you about ................................................
It's clear, and the hot foil is on top, semi-translucent. What you're seeing on the bottom side is a bit of reflection.
It's going to be below zero here, and although my bike is in an attached/unheated garage, I still haven't taken the battery out....
After reading here and seeing the pics, I had to look at mine. You can see the clear needle and the light coming up at the center post. Mine are pretty faded also but not nearly as bad as the original black plastic parts. Some of mine are pretty rough. The small cheap ones I replaced.
Brad
Brad
karl
Site Supporter
Bah, in the old days they where made out of metal and had this radioactive glow in the dark stuff on them. We need to go back...
OP
OP
mikesim
Site Supporter
If the battery has a full state of charge, there is nothing to worry about. Returning to the needles, the paint website did allude to the fact that it will likely take multiple coats of paint before the needles will be coated properly. I wonder if just a coat or two will be translucent enough to emulate the OE hot foil? Also, I try to avoid riding at night if I can and if I repaint the needles and just confine my riding to daylight hours if they will look much better. The light pipe effect is only apparent at night, correct?
It's clear, and the hot foil is on top, semi-translucent. What you're seeing on the bottom side is a bit of reflection.
It's going to be below zero here, and although my bike is in an attached/unheated garage, I still haven't taken the battery out....
Mike
Painting it will make it more visible in the daytime, but it'll probably harm the night-time visibility. It'll block the light through the top of the pointer, but you might still see a 'halo' behind it from the light pipe. So yeah, I'd trade 95% daytime benefit for 5% of low-light problems.
As for the earlier comment about weight.... Modern instrument clusters use tiny 'stepper motors' that drive the pointers. (this is what gives them the fancy start-up procedure where they go full sweep and back when you start up the bike....it's not for calibration, it's just for show). That's the case with our bikes with modern CAN-BUS electrical systems. I'd be careful not to glob TOO much paint on them, but I would have to think that the new design is more robust than older ones. You'd be surprised how much engineering goes just into those little pointers, though. They actually have tiny counter-weights in them for balance, and calculations are done to ensure that they remain on-point when given various shock loads, i.e. impacts. And you would also be amazed at how much lighting analysis goes into the design, both on the dials (the white tick-marks and numbers) and their evenness and intensity, and also the pointers. Lincoln uses white pointers, and Ford uses cyan ('ice blue'). These are tricky to get even, intensity-wise. Part of the pointer can be bright, and other parts dim. Red is easy, though, because your eyes can't tell the intensity difference so well. You don't notice these things until you've spent some time designing them, and then you notice it on every rental car. :sneaky:
Another side note:
These clusters are illuminated whenever the bike is running. In my VW, the instrument cluster only becomes illuminated when you turn the headlights on. On some of the Fords I was working on, they were illuminated whenever the car was running, day or night. Have you ever noticed some idiot driving around at night, often in town where streetlights are on, and they don't notice that their headlights are off? And you wonder, "can't they tell that their lights aren't on?!" Well, in these cars where the cluster is illuminated all the time, they hop in and start driving and don't notice anything, because their cluster is lit. So in my VW, if I pull out of a parking lot onto the street and look down and see my cluster is dark, I go 'DOH!' and turn the lights on. If your car always has its cluster lit, you won't notice your lights are off unless you notice a lack of light on the road ahead of you, which if you're in town and there are plenty of streetlights....
As for the earlier comment about weight.... Modern instrument clusters use tiny 'stepper motors' that drive the pointers. (this is what gives them the fancy start-up procedure where they go full sweep and back when you start up the bike....it's not for calibration, it's just for show). That's the case with our bikes with modern CAN-BUS electrical systems. I'd be careful not to glob TOO much paint on them, but I would have to think that the new design is more robust than older ones. You'd be surprised how much engineering goes just into those little pointers, though. They actually have tiny counter-weights in them for balance, and calculations are done to ensure that they remain on-point when given various shock loads, i.e. impacts. And you would also be amazed at how much lighting analysis goes into the design, both on the dials (the white tick-marks and numbers) and their evenness and intensity, and also the pointers. Lincoln uses white pointers, and Ford uses cyan ('ice blue'). These are tricky to get even, intensity-wise. Part of the pointer can be bright, and other parts dim. Red is easy, though, because your eyes can't tell the intensity difference so well. You don't notice these things until you've spent some time designing them, and then you notice it on every rental car. :sneaky:
Another side note:
These clusters are illuminated whenever the bike is running. In my VW, the instrument cluster only becomes illuminated when you turn the headlights on. On some of the Fords I was working on, they were illuminated whenever the car was running, day or night. Have you ever noticed some idiot driving around at night, often in town where streetlights are on, and they don't notice that their headlights are off? And you wonder, "can't they tell that their lights aren't on?!" Well, in these cars where the cluster is illuminated all the time, they hop in and start driving and don't notice anything, because their cluster is lit. So in my VW, if I pull out of a parking lot onto the street and look down and see my cluster is dark, I go 'DOH!' and turn the lights on. If your car always has its cluster lit, you won't notice your lights are off unless you notice a lack of light on the road ahead of you, which if you're in town and there are plenty of streetlights....
Maybe mounting one of these would make it easy to see that little needle.
junglejim
Site Supporter
Here I stand, humbled in the presence of greatness. I joked early on this thread about dim eyes vs dim gauge pointers. Thanks to Soujourner we have really learned something here. Our motorcycles (and other things) are becoming way more complicated than we are used to seeing. (remember I learned my mechanical skills working on '53 Chevys). Can Bus wiring and variable valve timing coupled with shim under bucket adjustments have ended my tinkering and major maintenance work.
Thanks, Sojourner, for your informative posts.
(There is still some truth to my reference to aging eyes, I know)
Thanks, Sojourner, for your informative posts.
(There is still some truth to my reference to aging eyes, I know)
I had not noticed all these details either till Sojourner pointed them out. Like they say it is all in the details.
Mike you could try some of that glow in the dark paint but you may need a license from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
Brad
Mike you could try some of that glow in the dark paint but you may need a license from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
Brad
Why not paint just part of the arm? If, it were mine, I would leave the tip of the needle exposed and paint white just 10mm of the arm for daytime use. For night use, it is important to leave a translucent section near to the axis as well as the tip to help the brain process the needle position.
I have no idea how the cluster is constructed, but is it possible to fit a brighter light only beneath the needle axle?
I have no idea how the cluster is constructed, but is it possible to fit a brighter light only beneath the needle axle?
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I thought about that, too.....paint only part of the needle.
The LEDs are surface-mount soldered to the circuit board, so it'd be more tricky to solder than the type where a pin goes through the board. Attached pictures are just from scouring the web....
Of course then there's the problem of, what happens when they draw more current?
Miairhead's 'Red Green' fix starts to look better and better....
The LEDs are surface-mount soldered to the circuit board, so it'd be more tricky to solder than the type where a pin goes through the board. Attached pictures are just from scouring the web....
Of course then there's the problem of, what happens when they draw more current?
Miairhead's 'Red Green' fix starts to look better and better....