New info on cylinder wall corrosion

[Coyote Chris]

Lycoming Aircraft Engines has just issued some interesting information on winter and cylinder wall corrosion.....

According to Lycoming "Our experience has shown that in regions of
high humidity, active corrosion can be found on cylinder walls of new
engines inoperative for periods as brief as two days. In engines that
have accumulated 50 hours or more time in service in a short period,
the cylinder walls will have acquired a varnish that tends to protect
them from corrosive action; such engines under favorable atmospheric
conditions can remain inactive for several weeks without evidence of
damage by corrosion. Aircraft operated close to oceans, lakes, rivers
and in humid regions have a greater need for engine preservation than
engines operated in arid regions."

Conversely, for those engines subject to moderate amounts of blow-by
and relatively high oil consumption, accumulating moisture and acid in
the oil is a given, regardless of how often the aircraft flies.

In some respects, we can do only so much to keep the damaging impact
of corrosion to a minimum, but some form of storage should be
considered when limited operation and frequent periods of downtime are
expected. This would also be applicable to engines removed from the
aircraft awaiting reinstallation.

Click here to read the full article.
(http://www.avweb.com/news/redundant/storing_your_airplane_for_winter_207881-1.html)
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/2399-full.html#207881

 

[Bear]

Chris,
Great article. When I store the bike for the winter---this is the first time for the NT--since I am not allowed to ride till March (Successful surgery--long recovery). I changed the oil and filter, put the bike on the center stand along with a block of wood under the engine which raises the front wheel about 1/2". The battery is plugged into a battery tender. Every week or two, I put the red switch into the non-start position and turn the engine over (just enough to move things) That keeps things lubed. On the CB550s, I use the kick starter giving it a couple kicks. I don't start the bikes until I am ready to ride.

 

[karl]

Using a fogging oil to protect the cylinder walls is also an option. Granted it does take some time to do properly but seems the thing to do if the machine will sit for an extended period of time.

 

[DirtFlier]

I just open my garage door, start the bike, then let it run until the temp gauge reaches normal. Nothing else special done except change the oil & filter but that also depends on the mileage of that oil as we go into winter. It was 27 this morning so I'm not riding today!

 

[seagrass]

Every week or two, I put the red switch into the non-start position and turn the engine over (just enough to move things) That keeps things lubed.

Does this work on the US models?

On the Australian models if the red switch is in the non-start position the engine will not turn over!

 

[Coyote Chris]

My C10 Connie and my Nt700v 2010 both will not turn over with the kill switch on...just tried it. I will have to go back and read the full article again but I think Lycoming doesnt recccomend this type of method anyway. One nice thing about aircraft and the NT is that when we shut them down properly, the fuel is turned off so to speak and there is no fuel washing the cyclinder walls with the ignition off, as there is with carburated motorcycles. This means when we turn off our NTs, the fuel injectors quit recieving their pulses while the engine winds down, so the oil isnt entirely washed/burned off the cylinder walls. I think running the bikes, even at idle, till the fan comes on at least once a week is probably a good idea, if we can not ride them. For my carburated Connie, I use fogging oil and put the bike to bed for the winter.

Does this work on the US models?

On the Australian models if the red switch is in the non-start position the engine will not turn over!

 

[Bear]

I got ahead of myself---I turn the engine over and before it starts, I hit the red switch. All I want to do is move the pistons in the cylinders.

 

[Coyote Chris]

Alex, I am not saying that is a good or bad idea. And aircraft, as you know, are not motorcycles. But for what its worth, here is what Lycoming says...

Note the factory is quoted verbatim here per Lycoming SL 180B: "Pulling engines through by hand when the aircraft is not run or flown for a week or so is not recommended. Pulling the engine through by hand prior to start or to minimize rust and corrosion does more harm than good. The cylinder walls, piston, rings, cam and cam followers only receive splash and vapor lubrication. When the prop is pulled through by hand, the rings wipe oil from cylinder walls."

"The cam load created by the valve train wipes oil off the cam and followers. After two or three times of pulling the engine through by hand without engine starts, the cylinders, cam and followers are left without a proper oil film. Starting engines without proper lubrication can cause scuffing and scoring of parts resulting in excessive wear."

Of course, it may or may not be a different animal if you would get oil pressure by running the starter on an NT.
Anyway, it has been so wet and humid here, I am still going to run up my engine once a week and ride it if I can.
Hope your recovery is going as expected....
Chris

I got ahead of myself---I turn the engine over and before it starts, I hit the red switch. All I want to do is move the pistons in the cylinders.

 

[DirtFlier]

I am doubtful about the value of turning over the engine a few turns (without starting) during winter, in regards to oiling certain parts. It may prevent the piston rings from getting rusted in place in the cylinder bores - if that is a problem - but the engine has to run for oil pressure to be come up and things to get lubed.

 

[bicyclist]

To me, it's all academic anyway. For nearly all motorcycle engines, it means nothing. For some guy who has a collection of bikes which are rarely run and kept for many years, it might make a difference. For nearly everyone else, they won't keep a machine long enough to worry about it and for the guys who keep machines for a long time and put on a lot of miles, they're run enough that it isn't an issue. I've never fogged an engine and I don't start one unless I'm going to ride it. I've never had a problem.

 

[Coyote Chris]

To me, it's all academic anyway. For nearly all motorcycle engines, it means nothing. For some guy who has a collection of bikes which are rarely run and kept for many years, it might make a difference. For nearly everyone else, they won't keep a machine long enough to worry about it and for the guys who keep machines for a long time and put on a lot of miles, they're run enough that it isn't an issue. I've never fogged an engine and I don't start one unless I'm going to ride it. I've never had a problem.

I think it depends on many things....in the winter in Spokane, it can be very dry or very humid for long stretches....all of my bikes used to get fogged and pickled for five months and I never had a problem. Someone gave me a two stroke enduro for free and all I had to do was chip the piston out of the bore with a hammer and chissel and put in a new piston and rings after a honning. Cylinder didnt even look that bad after sitting for five years. But the plugs arent that easy to pull on the NT and there are sensors you really dont want to subject to fogging oil though the intake, which isnt that easy to get to anyway, so I am riding it. Many folk do get away with just parking their bikes for four months or so. Me, I dont find a bike I like this much that often...I cant bear the thought of something happening to her.

 

[WVRider]

I think it depends on many things....in the winter in Spokane, it can be very dry or very humid for long stretches....all of my bikes used to get fogged and pickled for five months and I never had a problem. Someone gave me a two stroke enduro for free and all I had to do was chip the piston out of the bore with a hammer and chissel and put in a new piston and rings after a honning. Cylinder didnt even look that bad after sitting for five years. But the plugs arent that easy to pull on the NT and there are sensors you really dont want to subject to fogging oil though the intake, which isnt that easy to get to anyway, so I am riding it. Many folk do get away with just parking their bikes for four months or so. Me, I dont find a bike I like this much that often...I cant bear the thought of something happening to her.

I never winterize my motorcycles because I never know when a warm day will pop up and I can ride. Last winter I never had less than a 500 mile month. This year, not doing so good, so I just go out once a week, uncover and start the NT and let her run for a while (near normal operating temp). I always put it in gear and let the wheel and transmission spin a few times. Have done this for years without problems. When the sun shines, we hit the road even if only a short ride.

DJ