Oil Analysis Results

mikesim

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As I indicated in an earlier post, I did the 8,000 mile service on the NT last weekend and pulled a sample of the oil to send off to the lab for analysis. I just got the results back from Blackstone today.

For those who are not familiar with oil analysis reports, I will give you a brief tutorial on what info is contained within them. The elements contained in the left column are the elements that were found in the oil sample. These elements can be present due to 1.) the natural property of the crude used to make the oil; 2.) Additives added by the refiner to give the oil the desired qualities for the application, or 3.) Elements that come from the internal engine components due to wear. The quantities listed are the report are the values in the sample at ppm (parts per million). You will note that the shaded column on the left indicates the elements found in the sample that was sent to the lab. The shaded column on the right reflects the universal averages Blackstone finds in analysis of similar engines. For this test, the universal averages were based on an oil change interval of 2,000 miles, while my NT went 8,000 miles between changes. You can thus interpolate the universal averages for an 8K interval by multiplying the posted universal averages by a factor of four.

What are the elements, and what do they mean?

Aluminum - Typically shows piston wear and cylinder wear if the engine does not have a cast iron sleeve. Some aluminum (as well as the other elements will be naturally occuring in any oil)

Chromium - Typically not found in virgin oil, the presence of this element shows wear from the piston rings.

Iron - Typically present in some quantity in virgin oil the test sample reflects cylinder wall wear and in a wet sump bike such as the NT, the wear from the geartrain.

Copper/Lead/Tin - These elements typically reflect bearing wear in plain bearing engines.

Molybdenum - Typically not found in virgin oil, it's presence indicates that it was an anti-wear additive used by the refiner. In this case Exxon-Mobil. High moly oils are generally considered to be superior from a wear standpoint, but with a wet clutch engine such as the NT, you don't want too much slickeryness which can cause clutch slippage.

Nickel/Manganese/Silver/Titanium - Typically not found in virgin samples, nor are they used by the refiners as additives. There is one oil now that is being marketed "with Titanium", but that is more marketing than anything else, IMHO.

Potassium - Generally not present in any large degree unless an internal coolant leak is occurring.

Boron - Normall used as an anti-wear additive by the refineries.

Silcon - Generally, high silicon indicates a new engine or a faulty air filter as it allows too much dirt to pass thru the flter media.

Sodium - See Potassium above

Calcium - Some quantity of this element occurs naturally in oil, but it's primary use is as an additive to counteract the formation of acids in the oil which are a a natural by-product of combustion. An oil with a robust additive package is usually high in Calcium.

Magnesium - Used by the refiner as an anti-wear additive.

Phosphorus - Used as both an anti-wear additive and to reduce oil acidity.

Zinc - Some naturally occurs in oil but the high presence in the sample indicates that Exxon-Mobil used this as an anti-wear additive.

Barium - Trace element

I was intially concerned as I expressed in a previous post about the long (8,000 mile) oil change interval recommended by Honda. My concern was that the additive pack would hold up to this oil change interval. To determine this, I asked the lab to test for TBN (total base number). This number indicates the relative strength of the anti-acid additives after the test interval. You will note that the TBN remained quite high after 8K miles which tells me that the additive pack in Mobil 1 4T 10-40 is OK to use in this bike for the Honda recommended interval. I was also concerned about the oil shearing and the roughness while shifting that I was noticing as I apporached the 8,000 mile mark. The sample confirms my suspicion that the viscosity of the oil had sheared somewhat although not to dangerous levels. I do believe however based on this sample I will begin to use a 6K oil change interval.

I hope you aren't bored with my treatise on oil analysis but I suspect that there may be one or two of you who might be as anal as I am about this sort of stuff.

Mike
 

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Thanks for posting the results of your oil analysis and the brief tutorial.

Interesting and certainly not boring.
 

tawilke46

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Very interesting analysis. I wonder if there is another oil out there that would maintain resistance to shearing better or longer?
I used Mobil 1 motorcycle oil in my '98 Pacific Coast. I am presently using Castrol Actevo X-TRA 4T SAE 10W-30 Part Synthetic motorcycle oil.
I've only got about 2,500 miles on this oil change. Will change again at 6 to 8k miles. May change to Mobil 1. Is the Mobil 1 motorcycle full synthetic?
If I remember from my PC800 days it is a full synthetic.

Chuck, what do you ST guys use in your bikes?
 
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Phil Tarman

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How much does an oil analysis cost, Mike?

Tim, several of us used Rotella T (if that's the synthetic one). It's a truck oil but meets the requirements for motorcycles and has a low-slickeriness level (thanks for the word, Mike!). It seemed to work well.
 
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mikesim

mikesim

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How much does an oil analysis cost, Mike?

Tim, several of us used Rotella T (if that's the synthetic one). It's a truck oil but meets the requirements for motorcycles and has a low-slickeriness level (thanks for the word, Mike!). It seemed to work well.
Phil, with postage the cost is about $30. There is an extra charge of $10 for the TBN test. I only get the TBN test one time when using a new oil or in a new engine. I have heard nothing but good reports on the Rotella T 5-40 full syn oil. It meets the JASO MA spec and is somewhat less spendyu than M1. I think I may try it on my next go 'round. In answer to tawilke, yes M1 10-40 4T is full syn.

Mike
 

rcase13

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I have used the same oil analysis and they were able to determine bearing failure in my turbo. I suspected the turbo was starting to go but the oil analysis proved my guesses correct. It's expensive but worth it in my opinion. You really need more than one report to get a decent idea on wear problems. I love my car and it's worth it to me to know how she is doing. Yes my car is a she as well as my bike... I have no idea why.
 

Nicole

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thanks for Sharing! I have learned my one item for the day! :)
 

elizilla

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Truly fascinating (to me). I'm guessing that this was the second oil change. While not cheap, it seems like money spent well. Thank you for sharing the results.

I wold be interested to see the same thing done using Amsoil and the Rotella (and other oils) and then comparing results. Not a perfect control, but the comparison would have value. I just tossed my old oil, unfortunately.
Several years ago, Motorcycle Consumer News did exactly this. They found a Goldwing group that was going on a long run together, riding in a group so they all covered the same terrain on the same bike. They filled them with a bunch of different oils and collected samples for analysis, and came up with a lot of data, which they published in a multi-part series over a couple months.

Their online index shows something like this in starting in January 2003. I dug out my back issues and while this article is interesting it is not the one I am remembering. The index on the website is incomplete, it only goes to 2007, and then they skip a couple years. There are earlier oil articles but I think this one I am remembering was more recent. Hmmm. I'll have to look for it again later when I have time to go through more back issues.
 

tawilke46

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I Googled up motorcycle oil test results today and got some interesting reading. Give it a try. It seems every test has slightly different results.
I also went to the ST forum and read some threads there on what type of oil ST riders are recommending. ST riders seem to like the Rotella oils.
Katherine, I was hoping the MCN oil testing results would pop up, but no luck.
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0310_oil/index.html
http://www.bestcovery.com/best-motorcycle-oil
http://www.enhancedsyntheticoil.com/New_Motorcycle_Oils.htm

This is one of those topics where everyone has a personal favorite oil or opinion.
If you use an oil that is recommended by the manufacturer and change oil at the recommended intervals, you probably can't go wrong.
For the NT, Honda recommends oil viscosity 10W-30 or 10W-40, API service of SG or higher, JASO T903 standard of MA.
 
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Frosty

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Thanks for the info on oil analysis. I found a lab locally and will see what services they offer other than diesel analysis.
I found the following article about oils entertaining:
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

I found this site when working on the Vee Strom DL 650 or NT700 decision.
 

Bear

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I use Rotella in all my vehicles with the exception of the Pontiac Vibe which calls for 10W30 Energy Conserving. Rotella worked fine in the Ninja and does well in my diesel truck and inboard diesel on the boat.
 

rcase13

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I would like to see the TBN test using regular oil at 8000 miles. I might just do that. Problem is it will take me a long time to hit 8000 miles on this oil change.

There has to be a reason why Honda recommends synthetic on the ST1300 and no mention of synthetic on the NT700. Perhaps our V-Twin is just too low tech to require a synthetic oil. I can't help but think putting Mobile 1 in my crankcase may just be a waste of money.
 
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mikesim

mikesim

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I would like to see the TBN test using regular oil at 8000 miles. I might just do that. Problem is it will take me a long time to hit 8000 miles on this oil change.

There has to be a reason why Honda recommends synthetic on the ST1300 and no mention of synthetic on the NT700. Perhaps our V-Twin is just too low tech to require a synthetic oil. I can't help but think putting Mobile 1 in my crankcase may just be a waste of money.
Actually, a TBN comparo between convention oil and synthetic oil will reveal very little. The addtive pack used to maintain a robust TBN is used to counteract the formation of acids which are a normal by-product of combustion. This additive pack could be exactly the same for a conventional vs a synthetic oil since the creation of the harmful acids will occur regardless of which type of oil you use. The primary difference bewteen synthetic oils and convention oils is the molecular structure of the oil itself. If you were to examine a conventional oil under a microscope you would find that the oil molecules are not uniformly sized. You may have an admixture of small, medium and large molecules, the ratio of which determines the lubricating properties of the oil. Synthetics on the other hand utilize molecules of a uniform size thus allowing it to peform better under temperature extremes. Additionally, because of the similarity in molecular structure, this allows the oil to maintain it's "trueness to grade" in a shearing environment such as the crankcase of a motorcycle with an integral gearbox. Having said that, not all sythetics are created equal and there are many heated discussions as to which synthetic base stock is the best.

Mike
 

Coyote Chris

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I use Rotella in all my vehicles with the exception of the Pontiac Vibe which calls for 10W30 Energy Conserving. Rotella worked fine in the Ninja and does well in my diesel truck and inboard diesel on the boat.
Does Rotella meet the JASO T903 standards? (I have a Toyota Matrix, which is made in the same factory as the Vibe. I Love mine....and the 37 mpg.....)
 

Bear

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Chris,
The Rotella Synthetic meets JASO Specs. The matrix calls for "Energy Conserving" Synthetic--which Rotella is not (Energy Conserving oils are a No No with the NT)--see owners manual. I love the Vibe/Matrix. Mine is an 07, 2WD, 5SP. I get around 38 to 39 mpg. I will probably stay with that car and replace it with a Matrix when it wears out. I use Mobil 1 in the Vibe with WIX/NAPA filters.
 

Coyote Chris

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Chris,
The Rotella Synthetic meets JASO Specs. The matrix calls for "Energy Conserving" Synthetic--which Rotella is not (Energy Conserving oils are a No No with the NT)--see owners manual. I love the Vibe/Matrix. Mine is an 07, 2WD, 5SP. I get around 38 to 39 mpg. I will probably stay with that car and replace it with a Matrix when it wears out. I use Mobil 1 in the Vibe with WIX/NAPA filters.
I think it was the COG magazine that had a good article about the new JASO standards and how you could tell by reading the lables if an oil could be used in a wet clutch bike. My Matrix is an '06, two wheel drive with a five speed and I drove 280 miles today and got 37 mpg with the crappy E10...used to get 38-39 with real gas. The next gen Trix is heavier and IMHO, not as pretty and you cant get many options if you get the five speed. Mine has the sunroof and antilock breaks. Its one of the fast red ones....:) Two red bikes, two red cars, two red lawn mowers...go ahead and ask me what color my bath towel are! :)
I know this doesnt make any sense to many people but this is what I do. It makes me feel good. Before winter, I pickel my bikes and put in inexpensive non-energy conserving 20w-50. Come Springtime, I drain them, put in the JASO oil and put on a new filter. Both bikes together will probably only get ridden 5,000 miles in a season....I am retired and dont have much spare time but this year I am going to ride more.....
 

Bear

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Chris, My Vibe is the slow silver--bought it used. Also has the alloy wheels, sun roof, Abs, CD changer, fog lights, and all the whistles and bells. I hope you get out and ride more. Your area is prime riding--am quite familiar with the area--lived in Bonners Ferry ID many years ago. The area around Sandpoint and Coeur d Alene is especially beautiful. It has probably been built up a lot. The last time I was there was in 1970.
 

Coyote Chris

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Chris, My Vibe is the slow silver--bought it used. Also has the alloy wheels, sun roof, Abs, CD changer, fog lights, and all the whistles and bells. I hope you get out and ride more. Your area is prime riding--am quite familiar with the area--lived in Bonners Ferry ID many years ago. The area around Sandpoint and Coeur d Alene is especially beautiful. It has probably been built up a lot. The last time I was there was in 1970.
Got a ride scheduled with the Indian Bullet Owner/ sailboat driver in Athol on the 22nd to a restauant in Clark Fork...first tour should be early June. Can you believe Sand Point has a bypass now?
I am surounded by national parks and I have a senior pass and know how to use it!!!!
Its sad that one could get a Matrix in 2006 with sunroof, stick, anti lock brakes, CD changer, small engine and now thats not allowed.....if you want options, you get the big engine and auto slushbox....thats progress? Chris who also has a 2004 CR-V which also has a stick.....
 

Bear

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My 07 Vibe/Matrix has stick, 1800cc engine, sunroof, Cd player ABS, and alloy wheels. Took me 6 months to find it.
 
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