Owner-performed Maintenance Getting Set Right

[Phil Tarman]

Wild West Motorsports started working on Horse this morning. After my work getting the Clearwater Darla driving lights installed came to an ignominious end the night before I planned to leave for SE Ohio, I got the first appointment I could -- for today, June 2. When I tried to start the bike last night to take the bike to the dealers. It was dead. A new battery only lasted 3 weeks. Wild West sent a driver to pick up the bike late yesterday afternoon and I went over this morning to sign the work order. The service manager told me he thought they'd be finished by mid-afternoon. Mid-afternoon came and went. Joanne and I went out to eat and just as our food came, I got a call from Wild West. They've got everything working except for Clearwaters. They estimate another 2-3 hours.

BTW, as I was getting things ready to send, one of the things was the installation/maintenance manual for the McCruise cruise control. Back when I looked at their website as I considered replacing the Rostra cruise control with a McCruise, I checked their then-short list of installation centers and the nearest one was in Wisconsin. I wasn't sure if the cruise control was working and so I went on the McCruise website last night and looked at the list of installation centers. The closest to me now is only 178 miles away...in St Francis, Kansas!

 

[Brillot2000]

I’m a little confused how connecting a few wires for your driving lights brought you to the dealer. I was always a phone call away if needed some expert assistance or advice.

What did you install onto the bike since you last tried to contact me? I’m thinking you had a parasitic current drain or had something powered up when the ignition switch was turned off.

This is a reason why I’m a firm believer using the Honda accessory sub-harness. It powers down when the ignition switch is turned off

 

[Coyote Chris]

I’m a little confused how connecting a few wires for your driving lights brought you to the dealer. I was always a phone call away if needed some expert assistance or advice.

What did you install onto the bike since you last tried to contact me? I’m thinking you had a parasitic current drain or had something powered up when the ignition switch was turned off.

This is a reason why I’m a firm believer using the Honda accessory sub-harness. It powers down when the ignition switch is turned off

Batteries dont go dead after 3 weeks by themselves, unless you are very unlucky. There is an issue.

 

[DirtFlier]

It's possible that you could have an independent problem with premature battery failure?

All my accessories only function with key ON via a subpanel controlled by a relay. To me the cheap oldster, the Honda subharnesses are too bleeping expensive!

 

[NewTo700V]

This is a reason why I’m a firm believer using the Honda accessory sub-harness. It powers down when the ignition switch is turned off

While the sub-harness is nice, the lack of one or if it's already filled up that shouldn't dissuade an owner from adding accessories. All that's needed is to tap a switched 12V source and send it to the coil side of a relay. Then route accessory from battery terminal through switch side of said relay. I usually go for the taillight wiring, as it's exposed and relatively easy to get to. Puts me in the vicinity of the battery and there's room under the seat for adding relays, inline fuse holders etc..

 

[Brillot2000]

I am an Electromechanical Engineer. Part of my many role responsibilities involves designing electrical systems and/or working with other electrical systems. My general rule is to use what is available to you or integrate external control devices that are interlocked from the main system.

For over 30 years of the time that I have been riding and working on motorcycles. I have seen many ways the common person installs electrical accessories.

• Most will go directly to the battery terminals with no ignition-controlled interlocks such as a signal to a relay coil.
• Some install relays and do not install any fuses to protect the circuits from short circuits.
• Some splice into control voltages in key and critical sub-systems that should not be branched off like the power wires to things such as the MAP sensor or directly off the ECU.

Everyone is free to do things as they wish them to be done. However, each of the above-mentioned connection methods has its risk involved. It could be as simple as a dead battery to severely damaging expensive system control devices such as the ECU.

I am just saying from a professional's point of view...

 

[Brillot2000]

Batteries dont go dead after 3 weeks by themselves, unless you are very unlucky. There is an issue.

Batteries can be defective out of the box or happen within a short amount of time after use. I had the internal connection bars between plates cracked and would disconnect when riding the bike. The battery was fine when the bike with sitting still or at a complete stop. These things are beyond your control.

Batteries due have an internal resistance or impedance. This one of the reasons a battery can go dead over long periods of time discharge at a slow. Sometimes these internal impedances are lower than they should be and cause higher discharge currents and deplete the battery a lot faster.

If I were the dealer would have connected an external 12-volt source and connected an ammeter to measure the current draws of the bike when the ignition was turned off. If the measurements were within expected values. Then I would turn my focus to the battery. Provided you with a replacement under warranty. Charge the returned battery and then perform a load test on it. If the result were less than PAR, there was your problem. The dealer would get the credit on the battery as it was defective and you would have been out of there in 20 minutes. This how an engineer would approach the issue and found a solution in a fraction of the time your dealer did it.

Again, I am just saying from a professional's point of view.

 

[Phil Tarman]

I'm reasonably sure several of you could have guided me through the diagnosis of my current problem. I'm also reasonably sure that some of you could have given me clear guidance on installation of the Clearwater lights. But none of you were in any position to lend me your hands. Since the deer clobbered me back in '16 and shattered my left hand, I just can't do things that require any delicate coordinated movements.

I've used a Fuzeblock since back in 2000, when I farkled my first C10 Concours. I've had everything on switched circuits except for my GPS. I like having it unswitched so I can keep track of total time on a trip.

 

[RedBird]

So, Horse is now good to go! GREAT!!

 

[Coyote Chris]

I am an Electromechanical Engineer. Part of my many role responsibilities involves designing electrical systems and/or working with other electrical systems. My general rule is to use what is available to you or integrate external control devices that are interlocked from the main system.

For over 30 years of the time that I have been riding and working on motorcycles. I have seen many ways the common person installs electrical accessories.

• Most will go directly to the battery terminals with no ignition-controlled interlocks such as a signal to a relay coil.
• Some install relays and do not install any fuses to protect the circuits from short circuits.
• Some splice into control voltages in key and critical sub-systems that should not be branched off like the power wires to things such as the MAP sensor or directly off the ECU.

Everyone is free to do things as they wish them to be done. However, each of the above-mentioned connection methods has its risk involved. It could be as simple as a dead battery to severely damaging expensive system control devices such as the ECU.

I am just saying from a professional's point of view...

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I have seen that all too. I have also seen very crappy connections made throughout cop cars I worked on.

Has anyone actually seen a valid new battery failure due to the battery being defective (other than the Penn. state Yuasa defective welding machine) I am sure there must be some out there but I never have,

 

[Phil Tarman]

So, Horse is now good to go! GREAT!!

Yep. I've got a couple of minor things to do (see if a new SW-Moto tank bag will fit, relocate the ambient air temp sensor (it got up to 125F in 15 miles from the dealer to here at home) and then see if I can get my GPS onto a non-switched circuit. What are you doing tomorrow afternoon?

 

[RedBird]

Nothing that can’t be put aside for a couple of hours.

 

[Phil Tarman]

I ought to be ready by noon. Where do you want to go?

 

[RedBird]

Sent you a pm.

 

[DirtFlier]

On both of my bikes, there is a fuse between the battery positive and the accessory panel, which has individual fuses for each accessory. Wiring an accessory directly to the battery is a BAD idea but done too often! :-(

On a related note, I always try limit how many additional wires are going to the battery posts - one on each side. Typical accessory loop terminals are made of soft metal and easily deformed so they can sometimes result in the battery bolt becoming loose; especially if there are way too many terminals on that one bolt!

 

[ColoradoRod]

Has anyone used the Thunderbox product from HealTech Electronics. It's only rated for a max of 16amps so I'm not sure it'd be appropriate for all the heated gear, but I was thinking it'd be a clean solution for all the smaller bits and pieces we add to our bikes. It connects to the battery and then provides either 4 or 8 12-volt ports. The unit automatically turns itself on when you start the bike and off when it's off WITHOUT needing a separate wire to a switched ignition source. I'm not absolutely certain of the mechanism they use to achieve this functionality, but I'm guessing they have a circuit sensing when the voltage exceeds 13.xx which would indicate output from the alternator... which would indicate the engine is running.

Unless someone has a strong opinion as to why I shouldn't use this, I'm thinking this is what I'll do.

 

[Brillot2000]

Has anyone used the Thunderbox product from HealTech Electronics. It's only rated for a max of 16amps so I'm not sure it'd be appropriate for all the heated gear, but I was thinking it'd be a clean solution for all the smaller bits and pieces we add to our bikes. It connects to the battery and then provides either 4 or 8 12-volt ports. The unit automatically turns itself on when you start the bike and off when it's off WITHOUT needing a separate wire to a switched ignition source. I'm not absolutely certain of the mechanism they use to achieve this functionality, but I'm guessing they have a circuit sensing when the voltage exceeds 13.xx which would indicate output from the alternator... which would indicate the engine is running.

Unless someone has a strong opinion as to why I shouldn't use this, I'm thinking this is what I'll do.

I am not familiar with that unit or product. Any connections made directly to the battery are subject to corrosion. I would recommend that you make your connections to the starter solenoid bolt where the battery connects instead. This will eliminate the possibility of contact corrosion.

Also, I would recommend that you use 14 AWG wire connected to the power source as a minimum.

 

[mikesim]

Batteries due have an internal resistance or impedance. This one of the reasons a battery can go dead over long periods of time discharge at a slow. Sometimes these internal impedances are lower than they should be and cause higher discharge currents and deplete the battery a lot faster.
Again, I am just saying from a professional's point of view.

You refer to internal impedance in the battery. Impedance is a value in an AC circuit, not a DC circuit as you maintain. Impedance is the result of a circuits resistance and reactance. Resistance and impedance are not interchangable terms.

Mike

 

[Brillot2000]

Yes, I’m quite aware of that fact.

Not everyone understands resistance or what it is. Impedance is a more likely term that the layman could grasp as it is used for TV and speaker inputs through consumer electronics. If I said internal resistance or more accurately ESR these terms would go over the layman’s head.

A good example of this is Refrigerant versus Freon. The Layman is not familiar with the term refrigerant and many not understand what it is, but they kind of know what Freon is.

You should be quite aware of that Freon is a trademark name of Dupont for R12 and no other refrigerant.

 

[junglejim]

A good example of this is Refrigerant versus Freon. The Layman is not familiar with the term refrigerant and many not understand what it is, but they kind of know what Freon is.

They used to be “ice boxes”. Then Frigidaire started making electric refrigerators and other companies followed. But everyone called them all Frigidaires. Now they are called “Frig”.
Point is that we invent words all the time instead of using a proper existing word.
There is a difference between coolant and antifreeze and we use the words interchangeably. And no one cares.