Potential pannier locking mods

[RedNigel]

I am going to replace my left side pannier lid one time. If I have any more latch trouble I want to install something like CharlieB did.
If I do, I will need to rivet the latches onto the bike. Will I have to remove the saddlebag assy to be able to place a backing washer on the rivets?
Or can I get there from behind?
I know I should look before asking but I am at work.

 

[RedNigel]

looks like the inside of the pannier has to be loosened or removed

And I have no idea how to do that

 

[charlie b]

If you mount them in the two places that I did, then, no, no removal is necessary. But, have a few extra backing washers around for when you drop one (or two or three ) during the process.

The two spots I used were the only two places where I could get my fingers in there to do the job.

If you have shorter fingers then you might have to find another way, like a popsicle stick with some clay on the end of it.

 

[Rmcapozzi]

I have a set of straight and curved forceps. They come in quite handy for holding items where fingers/hands can't quite reach.

If you mount them in the two places that I did, then, no, no removal is necessary. But, have a few extra backing washers around for when you drop one (or two or three ) during the process.

The two spots I used were the only two places where I could get my fingers in there to do the job.

If you have shorter fingers then you might have to find another way, like a popsicle stick with some clay on the end of it.

 

[RedNigel]

I have a set of straight and curved forceps. They come in quite handy for holding items where fingers/hands can't quite reach.

Thats exactly what i had in mind when Charlie spoke of my short fingers. Dont ask how I am familiar with that tool:wink:

 

[U20417]

And I have no idea how to do that

The service manual lays it out step by step. Best $60 I ever spent. It only took about 30 minutes to get the paniers off, but without that manual it would have taken me hours to figure it out.

 

[charlie b]

The problem is the little washers need to be held snug up against the surface so the pop rivet can press against them. If not done right they are loose and have to be drilled out and done again. In plastic like this that means the hole gets enlarged and is better to find a new spot to work on. So, if you can manage to grasp them around the circumference and still put enough pressure to hold them in place you are good to go.

Check before you drill. Take off the seat and look/feel inside the rear of the bike until you find a spot where you are comfortable working. Then put the latch in that spot.

The two I put on the top were pretty easy. The front ones were in tight quarters.

I consider those to be "backup" to the latches on the bike. They are probably a bit stronger than the stock latch mounts in the big lids, but, I would not trust my life to them

The good thing about them, in my mind, is that I knew they would not just pop open and it is very clear when they are latched.

 

[RedNigel]

Best $60 I ever spent

Hey Richard! Long time no talk to

 

[DirtFlier]

Much better to remove the saddlebag completely so you'd have clear access to the inside surfaces.

Except for the one phillips screw in the pass-through tunnel, everything else is accessed from one side and all the screws are staring you in the face when you open the lid. Getting the cables disconnected is somewhat tricky as is disconnecting the linkage to the lock but after you do it one time, it's simple.

 

[kenstone]

I don't have this problem...yet.
If I had to do this "fix", I would consider chicago screws over rivets.
Has anyone used these, with the blind nut on the outside??
https://www.chicagoscrews.com/products.php?catalog=us&category=4
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Achicago%20screws
The "nut" part is also called a binder screw
Maybe use an "open binder screw" on the outside and a hex button head on the inside

 

[RedNigel]

I have seen a million of those in an aviation application and had forgotten about them
I guess if you could get just the right length and thickness they would be great

 

[U20417]

Hey Richard! Long time no talk to

Been riding when its dry and above freezing. Been skimming the forum most nights, but not taking time to reply, just trying to keep kinda up to date. Finally got cold enough long enough to get back to the forum. See you on a lot...way cool!

 

[RedNigel]

Been riding when its dry and above freezing

What is your take on Rivets vs Chicago screws?

 

[charlie b]

I use and like rivets cause they are simple and secure. If using nuts and bolts for something like this I'd use the nylon locking nuts. They would be a good alternative if you can get them in there (washer and nut).

never liked the Chicago style stuff except for things like leather working. They are good when I can't get behind something to set a rivet and still need something flat.

 

[U20417]

What is your take on Rivets vs Chicago screws?

The Chicago screws look like a good choice, but the coming unscrewed would be a problem. I use Loctite on almost all motorcycle threaded connections, but I never used it on plastic.

Bob, I have never gotten Loctite on the plastic yet. What happens???

 

[RedLdr1]

What happens???

The NT's plastic effectively melts... A couple folks have found that one out the very hard way.

 

[U20417]

The NT's plastic effectively melts... A couple folks have found that one out the very hard way.

Man, I am glad someone said something. I never thought of what it might do to the plastic!!!

 

[RedNigel]

I am buying a set of OEM lids off another forum member, but the next latch failure is going to force me to install something

 

[kenstone]

I have found that rivets can/will expand to "fill" the hole in the plastic, transfering pressure, that sometimes cause stress cracks in the plastic, after time.

Using an "open back" type chicago screw will make the matching screw's exact length less critical.
For Loctite on small stuff I put a drop on something else and use a common pin to transfer a small amount of Loctite from that drop to exactly where I want it and have never melted any plastic with it.
Kind of "pin pointing" where it goes
Ken

 

[charlie b]

The fumes of the curing locktite will make the plastic brittle as well. Not as noticeable on the more flexible stuff, but can affect the ABS stuff (like the lids). Locktite warns of this in their literature. An NT owner in here found out the hard way when he used a touch of Locktite on the windshield screws.

If I wanted to secure nuts when used with plastic I'd use a little bit of epoxy on the threads. Get the 30min stuff so it won't "go off" too soon And don't use too much or the heat of curing might affect the plastic.

Regardless of method the plastic will be under a bit of stress from the compression of the nut and bolt or the rivet and washer. The compression and the washers are meant to expand the area of stress from the latch itself. If only the hole is subject to the stress it will soon go oblong and then start stress fractures and finally break through.

Best is to use a full backing plate instead of just washers. You can make one from a little bit of brass or aluminum or stainless sheet metal.

Bottom line is that the extra latches have more beef behind them than the wimpy screw bosses on the large lids, no matter what you use to attach them with.