Question about pedal feel for those with ABS

[MarkinTexas]

I bought a 2011 2 months ago and trailered it home. The rear (ABS) brakes felt a little spongy and the fluid was a bit dark, so I bled them today. The fronts are great, but no improvement on the rear brake pedal. I have not ridden it as I'm in the process of checking the values soon too. I followed the instruction in the service manually, going from front to back twice. The fluid is running clear and bubble free. When I depress the pedal it initially goes down about 1 1/2 - 2 inches, stops, then slowly drops another 3-4 inches with constant pressure applied. Is this normal? Thanks, Mark

 

[bicyclist]

Is this normal?

No. The rear brake pedal should function like any brake pedal; push it down a short distance and it stops. Must still be some air in there somewhere.

 

[davidhobbs01]

I got my NT with abs last week. I am experiencing the same exact thing. The bike is a 2011, with 3,800 miles on it. The fluid in the reservoir looks good, and it should be fine with less than 4K of use. When riding and coming to a stop the rear brake works as it should. But with continued pressure at a stop light, it drops several inches. So if 2 users are experiencing this, I'm gonna ignore it.

 

[DirtFlier]

ABS on the NT will never provide the hard feel at the lever or pedal of a non-ABS NT but the stopping power is not effected. On the ABS bike all fluid is first routed to the ABS Controller before it goes to the brake caliper(s).

Debbie's NT is non-ABS while mine has ABS and on those occasions when I changed fluid/bled her brakes, I could make a direct comparison with my bike.

 

[EODEAN]

My 2011 I bought last year with 610 miles has a soft rear brake. Front works great.

 

[Macka]

ABS on the NT will never provide the hard feel at the lever or pedal of a non-ABS NT but the stopping power is not effected. On the ABS bike all fluid is first routed to the ABS Controller before it goes to the brake caliper(s).

Debbie's NT is non-ABS while mine has ABS and on those occasions when I changed fluid/bled her brakes, I could make a direct comparison with my bike.

All fluid is NOT routed via the ABS Modulator. When the ABS is actually in operation, fluid flow is controlled by the Modulator to the wheel which needs control. When the ABS is not in operation/in standby all fluid by-passes the Modulator as the solenoids/valves are shut.
When bleeding the system the key MUST NOT be turned on at any time as any air in the system may be drawn into the Modulator during the Self Test cycle. If air is drawn into the Modulator it can usually only be removed using special equipment and techniques by a Dealer.
This the case for cars and should be the case for bikes. The principle of operation is the same.
The brake pedal should not "sink" under constant foot pressure.

Macka

 

[karl]

Have you bled the front caliper? These all have a linked system... Do that and you should be all set.

 

[MarkinTexas]

Thanks for the input guys. I was not feeling good about how the pedal feels. I'll give it another round of bleeding the front then back again acouple more times and see if it improves. That rear caliper sure is fun. Great tip about going at it from the other side.

 

[DirtFlier]

[All fluid is NOT routed via the ABS Modulator...]

The service manual shows a schematic of the system and brake lines from the handlebar and foot pedal master cylinders go first to the ABS Controller before heading to the brake calipers. If you do a side-by-side comparison with a non-ABS NT you can easily feel the difference.

 

[charlie b]

If your pedal slowly moves when applied brakes something is wrong. This is typical behavior of a bad MC piston seal (if nothing in your system is leaking).

If the brake simply feels "spongy" but holds position it is an indicator of air in the system.

And, you should not ignore it

 

[MarkinTexas]

It turned out to be a bad rear master cylinder. Pricey fix. Honda says not overly common, but they are aware of several low mileage bikes that have had to fix this issue.

 

[Phil Tarman]

Is Honda going to pay for it? Seems like if they're aware of several low-mileage bikes with that problem, they might be aware that they've contributed to the problem.

 

[seagrass]

It should not be a pricey fix.

The master cylinder should just need a "kit" which should be about $50 and one hours labour should do the job, two hours absolute maximum.

Seagrass

 

[charlie b]

Unless the problem is a crack in the MC or badly machined bore.

 

[EX Winger]

I never had soft brakes, nor creeping pedal on my 2011, Pads repLXED AT 40,000 MILES AND AGAIN NO SOFT OR SPONGY PROBLEMS, if NOT AIR IN SYSTEM THERE IS A PROBLEM IN A MASTER CYLINDER IN MY HUMBLE OPPINION,

ELDON

 

[MarkinTexas]

Think it was cracked and sucking air. No compensation from Honda, I bought it used and rolled the dice on the spongy pedal. Thought a bleed would fix it, not so lucky. Moving forward with the voltmeter and temperature gauge. Adding a Powerlet outlet for my heated gloves. Painting all the UV damaged plastic and installing a new P4 tire on the rear. Hate the factory horn, installing dual Fiamms. Bought an undercowl from the UK. Will post pictures when completed. The stealership had it for 3 weeks, had them check the valves while they were holding it hostage. Can't wait to get some riding in. Still have the PC until all is completed. Later y'all.

 

[Chuck 500]

Hope you get all this resolved soon. Where are you in TX? Heve you checked out Two Wheeled Texans? They do a monthly lunch run which a lot of fun. Maybe I will see you at one (Sept will be my next opportunity).

 

[MarkinTexas]

Hi Chuck,
I'm in Lago Vista just west of Austin at the start of the Hill County. Brakes are fixed, everything is painted and wired and I'm reassembling. I'll check out the website, thanks!