Rain gear test #2

[larrylarry75]

Note: A couple of days ago I posted a report on a test of rain gear in the coffee break thread. It was done spur of the moment without thinking and really should have been posted as a new thread here in the rides report section. So...here goes.

Monday Feb 13, 2013

Nasty icky rain in the mid-40's here on the coast, no surprises there. I think today will be ideal for another rain gear functionality test, this time as an alternate to the Roadcrafter I'm going with a real 2-piece rain suit by TourMaster. Underneath I'm going to give my Belstaff Trialmaster jacket a workout and since waxed cotton provides zip for protection I'll wear my old Bohn Armor shirt & pants. Those last are more like pantyhose with armored inserts so if you're a guy you'll want to be confident of your manliness before you spring for a set. No matter, they work great and are ideal for hot climates if you get the ones designed for that.

Last time out my hands got wet in spite of wearing those 3-fingered overgloves on top of a pair of regular Rev'It gloves. Maybe I should treat the inside seams with some of the leftover seam sealer I've used on tents? I really don't like wet hands, even with the heated grips they still get cold.

Since I'll be wearing the Bohn Armor gear I'll give my old pair of Diamond Gusset jeans the nod, they should be warm enough under the rain suit.

I'm also going to try a different configuration for the Knox Cold Killer baklava to see if I can limit the amount of rain getting through to the back of my neck. Maybe I'll tuck it in differently, gotta do something as I sure hate it when water trickles down my neck. I see where you can now buy the TourMaster rain jacket with a hood that goes underneath your helmet. That seems like an ideal design if it weren't for the fact you'd need to wear it that way all the time.

When I was on my last ride through Alaska I had to buy a rain suit in White Horse; my fancy new Rev'It gear was leaking like a sieve. Wal-Mart was the store of choice since they had a reasonable selection and I picked up a great 2-piece outfit, complete with hood. The hood was too heavy to fit under my helmet and rolled up it made too big a bunch of material behind my helmet. The net result was I had to crane my head forward to keep it level which became cause for a neck ache in just a few miles. I solved the problem by stopping long enough to cut the hood off and sealed the raw ends of the material with ductape. When I arrived home a few weeks later I had our local tailor install a heavy duty zipper so I could wear the jacket with or without the hood. Hmm..maybe I should drag that beastie out and give it another shot? I may do that if the TourMaster doesn't perform as I want.

Results to be posted later, suggestions for alternative gear are always welcome.

LL75:smile:

 

[RedLdr1]

I carry latex surgical gloves to keep my hands dry inside my gloves if it is really raining... I have a riding partner, with much smaller hands, who wears Playtex dish washing gloves over his regular gloves. Unfortunately I have yet to find a pair of thin rubber gloves that will fit over my regular gloves...

 

[Rmcapozzi]

The best set of rain proof over gloves I've ever had are from Rainoff. They pack up small so are easy to keep on the bike. They keep your hands/gloves warm and dry. You can even use them to break the cold wind on cold days too. I went with the 3 finger option.

I provided them the following feedback (on their website dated September 09):

In October 2008, my wife purchased a set of the three fingered Rain-off Overgloves for my birthday. I was so impressed with the quality of the product, I purchased a second set for her. In July 2009, my wife and I (along with another couple) set out on a 6,700 mile 18 day trip from Virginia to Yellowstone, WY and back. On the first day of our trip, it rained heavily for 8 of the 10 hours we rode. The overgloves worked perfectly. My hands were never wet or damp the entire day and the rain was constant and a real frog-strangler at times. The other couple's "water-proof" gloves were soaked halfway through the day. I was very impressed with the overgloves and very happy to have warm and dry hands. Additionally, we ran into cool temperatures in Yellowstone and while riding through the mountains of Montana, Wyoming, and Idaho. My wife wore her overgloves with just her perforated summer gloves underneath and he hands were kept warm even in the 30F temperatures and gusty side winds. Thank you for the excellent product that not only exceeded my expectations and lives up to all your claims but makes it possible for my wife and I to be dry and comfortable even on those not so nice riding days. Sincerely, Rob Capozzi, Leesburg, Virginia, USA​

 

[Doug Wickstrom]

This last year I started wearing neoprene fishing gloves for riding when it gets chilly. I wear a nylon glove liner inside them when it gets colder. It works pretty well into the thirties and it is not too bulky. I have not worn them in the rain - I try to avoid that - so I can't speak to how they work then. But they are intended to keep your hands warm and dry in the water when fishing. If it turns warm my hands will sweat inside quickly so they are not an all weather solution. They are not expensive so it was an easy try. I'm curious if anyone else has used neoprene for riding gloves.

 

[Chuck 500]

After spending 8 1/2 hours of a 9 1/2 ride in the pouring rain last Friday, i am going to get a Tourmaster rain suit this weekend. Plan to fit is over my other gear, Olympia GT Air Transitions jacket and pants. The Olympia has been great so far but finally soaked through on that ride.

 

[EX Winger]

I have a set of Walls rain gear, nylon outer shell and also inner lining, attached hood , zipper pockets. Possibly the attached hood could go on under hemlet, I have nto trie tha. It is very good gear well tested thorough its life thus far of seven year lif and still doing a great job.

 

[Bear]

Doug, I have tried Neoprene fishing gloves--recommended by one of our Lobstermen. They work quite nicely. In the rain, your hands will get damp because the Neoprene is porous, but will stay warm--sort of works like a wet suit we SCUBA people are familiar with.

Larry, Love your reviews. We should maybe have a thread, "In Quest of the Perfect Rain Suit" I think that a Dry Suit from the local dive shop would work--but we would look funny riding a bike in one.

 

[Phil Tarman]

Back when I wore Tourmaster's Cordura riding suit, I used a $25 set of neoprene-coated nylon Stearns rain gear from WalMart. It worked good at keeping me dry, but got pretty warm if it was a day with temps in the 70s or higher.

I haven't needed anything over my 'Stitch or my RoadGear Cordura/Gore-Tex riding outfits. Only time I've gotten wet in the 'Stitch was when we were riding in a torrential downpour with a 90-degree crosswind at about 40+mph...with the vents open. Lots of people talk about getting a wet crotch with the one-piece 'Stitch but I have never had that issue, either on my Connies or on the NT.

 

[Chuck 500]

Main problems I had were wet crotch, possibly from sitting in water and water down my neck from wind and dripping from helmet. (I also didn't completely zip the pants liner one at one stop. But that zipper is not a waterproof one). Neither problem manifested on shorter rain rides like the commute. I've ridden up to 4 hours in wet with no problem. Last Friday was fairly extreme. Boots were soaked through too. That has also not happened before.

 

[charlie b]

I don't have to ride in rain a lot so Frogg Toggs work for me. Especially when one of those nasty thunderstorms looms in my path. I have tested my Motoboss mesh jacket rain liner and it worked well on a 3 hour jaunt in the rain.

Gloves are not waterproof so I carry surgical gloves to wear underneath.

My Kilimanjaro jacket is supposed to be good in the wet but has never been tested. Same with my Tourmaster Venture Air pants liners.

 

[MaggieMan]

the Knox Cold Killer baklava - suggestions for alternative gear are always welcome.

You might want to consider a balaclava. I can't imagine a Greek pastry dripping with honey being much good in the rain at all!

Scott

 

[JQL]

In the early '80s when I was a Dispatch Rider in London (UK) we used to get some very wet days. I eventually found a combination of gear that worked even after 8 hours in the rain on a bike.

It is all to do with layering. These layers can be removed, in a specific order, to compensate for warmer weather.

Bottom layer (for the cold, below about 2C/35F)

• Long Johns
• Thermal vest (T-shirt)

Normal(?) Layer (worn everyday)

• Jeans
• Sweatshirt
• Motorcycling Socks - thick wool long socks

Over layer

• Belstaff nylon Jacket - this was worn everyday even in summer. It was treated with NikWax on a monthly basis and was waterproof
• Belstaff nylon Over Trousers - worn when cold only

Full Water Proof Layer

• A Waterproof thin rubberised nylon jacket
• A Waterproof thin rubberised nylon trousers

Gloves

• Leather Motorcycle Gloves
• Electrically Heated "silks" (below about 2C/35F)
• Handlebar Mitts

Boots

• Derry Boots - Rubber, lined motorcycle boot (unfortunately no longer available)

The Rubberised Nylon Jacket and Trousers were always in the TopBox in case of Rain and were completely waterproof.

 

[Rmcapozzi]

With my liners installed, my Olympia riding suit is suppose to be water proof also but I dislike ending the day at the hotel and having to drip dry my riding suit. This is the primary reason I have a Tourmaster rain suit and overgloves (riding boots are water proof). They dry off VERY fast (a quick shake and they are almost dry) and I arrive at my destination with all of my riding suit dry AND clean (that road spray is ubber dirty). The Tourmaster suits (my wife and I both have the 2 piece Elites) have served us well in the last 3 years. We've had several all day (8+ hours) of rainy rides and arrived clean, dry, and warm at our destination. My wife at times will put on her rain jacket for extra warmth even when it is raining sunshine so they provide an added benefit to her.

After spending 8 1/2 hours of a 9 1/2 ride in the pouring rain last Friday, i am going to get a Tourmaster rain suit this weekend. Plan to fit is over my other gear, Olympia GT Air Transitions jacket and pants. The Olympia has been great so far but finally soaked through on that ride.

 

[charlie b]

When I want to know about riding in weather I always go to the UK forum to ask the dispatch riders what they wear/do. Like John said, full waterproof is done with a couple of "waterproof" layers.

For shorter periods (hour or two) just one layer will usually work.

Before I could afford riding gear (and back when it was all leather) I used snowmobile suits for winter and cold weather rain riding. Was water resistant enough for shorter rides and warm enough for well below freezing. Also VERY easy to put on and take off. Wet and warm meant marine type wet weather gear, rubberized nylon. Gets really steamy inside though

That was also when I learned about how to wash and retain water resistance. Wash normally, then run through two more rinse cycles to get all the detergent out of it. It is surprising how much detergent is left on you clothes after a regular wash cycle.

 

[larrylarry75]

the Knox Cold Killer baklava - suggestions for alternative gear are always welcome.

You might want to consider a balaclava. I can't imagine a Greek pastry dripping with honey being much good in the rain at all!

Scott

MaggieMan
Bingo, you've hit the source of the problem! But what will I do when it's time for coffee and there's nothing to snack on?
LL75:tongue:

 

[larrylarry75]

Note: Did I mention that I'm riding my 2006 Ninja 650R for these tests? I should have if I didn't as it might help establish that the amount of weather protection provided is practically nil.

So...

Tues Feb 14, 2012

Yesterday's rain gear test was interesting to say the least. I've used layering techniques for many years to achieve manageable comfort when fluctuating weather forces are at hand. However...what I discovered even before leaving the house was the sheer bulk I was dealing with was on a par with how the Michelin Man appears.

Realizing how silly this was I dealt a new hand and eliminated the rain suit. This helped a lot and it also provided a means to discover whether or not the Belstaff jacket would prove to be waterproof. Or water resistant? At the same time since my jeans wouldn't offer up much water protection I threw a pair of REI overpants into the tank bag. This would soon prove to be a smart decision.

As I mounted up to leave the rain was falling in a light drizzle, one of those on-again, off-again things that drive you crazy as you never really feel the need for a rain suit all the while you're becoming wetter and wetter. On the road, it soon became apparent the drizzle was turning into a steady rain so I pulled into a truck scale to change gear. Total distance so far was around 6 miles. First things first, I wanted to pull on the REI overpants before my jeans got soaked. Good thinking LL. This procedure took several minutes as by this time my boots were wet and even though the overpants sport full length zippers they still had a tendency to snag on the material. Hopping about on one foot, then the other provided plenty of entertainment for passersby I'm sure. Then I noticed I could feel cold air circumventing my generous mid-section and discovered the Bohn Armor shirt had crept upwards creating a 3 inch gap between it and the bottoms. Perfect.

One thing about the Belstaff jacket is it employs two belt-buckles, one at the collar and one at the belly, neither of which lend themselves to manipulation while wearing winter gloves. Realizing I needed to wriggle out of it before I could fix the armor thing I removed my heavy gloves. Then the Hi-Viz vest. Then the jacket. Of course the helmet had already been removed, right? All the while enjoying more of the Oregon rain experience. It even became necessary to remove the electric vest - after fussing about with disconnecting the power cord which was fished through the jacket which in itself was more fun than a barrel of monkeys.

So, there I was, nearly naked from the waist up and becoming a bit more damp but at least I could access the armored shirt and get everything tucked back in place, then begin the tedious process of reassembling my "waterproof" outfit. Some of you may think I've never ridden in the rain before which is understandable but in truth I am very experienced at such things, you just have to keep in mind the purpose of this excercise, namely to test various combinations of gear. Old guys get bored hanging around the house so this is what some of us do.

Alright then, everything back together and reasonably dry I again set out for Coos Bay, 35 miles north. Two miles further and nearly through Bandon-town I realize the Pin-Lock system in my Schuberth C3 over-the-top-priced helmet has begun to fail. FOG INSIDE MY HELMET! Dammit anyway, the things that can go wrong will surely do so if given the opportunity. I pull into Ray's parking lot, one of our two local grocery shopping marts and again, enjoying the steady drizzle peer down into the dark interior to see what's going on.

The Pin-Lock device employs a narrow seal around it's periphery that is the key element on which it's entire operating system depends, not unlike the double-paned windows in your house. As such if anything disturbs that seal it will leak air between it and the corresponding area of your faceshield resulting in FOG. Sometimes this situation can be reversed by pushing up slightly on the offending area's seal and this is what I did. It seemed to work so back on with the helmet and off I go again, this time with a total of 8 miles or so from home.

Heading north on US 101 I encountered some really heavy rain, the type that most bikers will use common sense and pull over to wait it out. Myself, being a life-long member of the webfooted set I simply continued along through the deluge. The Pin-Lock worked more or less as it should although at times I could detect different areas of the shield that would start to fog up and then settle down again. Keeping the front vent open helped override this and at the same time ensured the small exposed area of my face was held at a steady temperature just slightly above freezing. Nice. Crisp.

Eventually I arrived at Monica's, our usual watering hole (not saying her coffee is watery) and there were two of my buds, both of whom had driven their cages! We drank the requisite amount of coffee while discussing the merits of waxed cotton rain gear as opposed to the more modern products available which embrace technological advances such as Gortex, etc. So why would anyone wear a Belstaff jacket like mine you ask? Simply put, the cool factor. Me and Steve McQueen for instance. I wonder if he ever rode in the rain?

LL75 :wink:

 

[JQL]

I have the Schuberth C3 and I'm wondering if there are some design flaws. 2 to be exact:

• I think that the material that the Visor and Pinlock inner visor are made of is too thin. This allows it to flex enough to break the "double-glazed" seal and admit moisture
• The rubber strip around the flip front which the visor seats on when down, has come adrift on mine (I have now had it re-glued back in place by the dealer) allowing the build up of condensation at the bottom right of the visor.

Making things light is one thing but it shouldn't have a (seemingly) detrimental effect on other parts of the design.

I must admit to really liking the Schuberth C3 even with these "flaws". It is my favourite helmet of all time.

Oh, I didn't mention it, but when Despatch Riding I used a Bell full-face helmet. I had it for about 25 years before it just had to go.

 

[charlie b]

Nice commentary Larry. Made me laugh thinking about doing the same kind of dance when encountering a thunderstorm. Wait til it blows through? Ride through and hope it's not as bad as it looks? Stop and put on the gear?

Putting rain gear on over wet clothes is fun too

Taking off a couple of layers so you can install the rain liner of jacket and/or pants cause you didn't think you'd need the rain suit this time.

And don't burst my bubble about the Schuberth! I want one and all this talk of flaws in part of the design is disheartening

John, when did you buy the Bell helmet? I bought one in 1980 (or 81?).

 

[larrylarry75]

Nice commentary Larry. Made me laugh thinking about doing the same kind of dance when encountering a thunderstorm. Wait til it blows through? Ride through and hope it's not as bad as it looks? Stop and put on the gear?

Putting rain gear on over wet clothes is fun too

Taking off a couple of layers so you can install the rain liner of jacket and/or pants cause you didn't think you'd need the rain suit this time.

And don't burst my bubble about the Schuberth! I want one and all this talk of flaws in part of the design is disheartening

John, when did you buy the Bell helmet? I bought one in 1980 (or 81?).

Charlie, when the C-3 came out there was little doubt it was the premier flip-up lid to have but it's lofty price tag and unavailability in the US nearly doomed sales in the states. Those of us who could figure out a way to do so brought them in from overseas, usually at the bone jarring price of $650 - $725. To say they were worth it is one of those speculation moments, if you truly craved one and had the means than you'd likely feel it was so.

Fast forward to today and you'll find what I feel is the new benchmark lid, Shoei's ultra cool Neotec. You can read the initial report on webBikeworld.com if you follow this link:
http://www.webbikeworld.com/r2/shoei/neotec/ Their suggested list price is in the mid-$600's but I've already seen them with street prices for $75 less and they've just recently become available. I had my first look at one of them last week and I can safely say it's a doozy. We sat one next to a brand new C-3 for an impromptu comparison and the overall quality of the Neotec may have a slight edge. They both offer similar if not identical features and street prices are so close as to not be a consideration.

My personal take is the C-3 looks a bit sleeker, maybe a bit smaller too depending on the size of the shell. Either one is sure to please but only if you don't require after sale service and in that case I think Shoei may edge out Schuberth. Remember, your experience may vary so this would be your call. Knowing what I know about the C-3 and having owned (still do) one of the old Shoei Syncrotec's (predecessor to the Multitec) I would opt for the Neotec.

Does that burst anyone's bubble? I surely hope not. One last thing to consider, I've seen two C-3's for sale on ADVrider in the last few days, one brand new and one worn very little. Both were available at reasonable price points. In the event one of you decides you just have to have a C-3 keep this in mind: Drop down one size. I normally wear a large but when I was placing my order with the Designer Helmet folks in the UK they were very emphatic about this so I went with a medium. It fits perfect.

So there you go, another 2-cts worth of my opinions.

LL75 :smile:

 

[charlie b]

Thanks Larry