Running ethanol

daler

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Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
278
Location
Montana
Bike
2011 Black NT700
I have been lucky enough to be using only ethanol free gas in my NT so far. However, I know the time will come it will not be available when I'm out and about. Is there a problem with using ethanol gas or is there an additive that can be added to the tank?
Thanks, Clint
 
Do a search for "ethanol" in this forum and you will find several looooong threads on it. Look for E15 or Ethanol in the thread titles.
 
As an aside, I just drve from Spokane to Oshkosh and was able to buy only e free gas thanks to pure-gas dot com
 
Here in New England you have no choice but use it. You loose power and mileage but it still runs OK. Just don't scratch any protective coatings on various parts in the fuel system and you should not have any problems unless you let the bike sit. Plain Stabil has worked for me so far for storage.
 
I've been running mostly gasoline with 10% Ethanol in it since I bought my bike (if there's an option for non-ethanol, I always take it). In 86,000+ miles it hasn't caused me any trouble that I know about.

My bike rarely sits for long at a time (although it hasn't moved now in 15 days) and I ride pretty much year around. I had a couple of 4-5 week spells with no riding due to a very cold winter and my commute between Fort Morgan and Rocky Ford.
 
[...I've been running mostly gasoline with 10% Ethanol in it since I bought my bike. In 86,000+ miles it hasn't caused me any trouble that I know about...]

I've only had a choice in Nebraska when one pump was labeled "Super Regular" but I went with the normal 10% ethanol stuff.
Super Regular had a higher price and since I didn't know what made it "Super", I stayed with the tried and true.
 
I try to run ethanol-free when I can, but lately I can't find any locally. The pure-gas.com site and others I've tried are way out of date and have lots of incorrect info. Locally the four stations within 40 miles of where I live no longer have ethanol-free or never did, two are out of business, and two are located wrong on the map. It is pretty much useless information.

On the way to Spearfish "Fossil" and gassed up at an ethanol-free pump and we both got 3 mpg better mileage on that tank. But it was 10% more expensive than the e10 regular. I wish I could buy ethanol-free gas, but they don't have it around here any more.
 
So does anyone use an ethanol treatment? I know to stay away from any that contain alcohol.
Clint
 
So does anyone use an ethanol treatment? I know to stay away from any that contain alcohol.
Clint
No need to if you are running the bike. Mine has been burning it from day one. Ethanol is corrosive your bike is able to run with it without problems until you store it. Use a fuel stabilizer of your choice when you do that and you should not have any problems.
 
I ran a test over the last month, running ethanol-free gas (or, more precisely, fueling from a pump that claimed it to be ethanol-free) in my FJR for several tanks, then switching back. I MIGHT have gained 1 MPG using "straight" gas in that sequence over the stuff that MIGHT have UP TO 10% ethanol. The straight stuff was rated at higher octane (91) than the 87 I usually run. There was no observable difference in behavior or performance between the two. The "straight" gas ran $0.25/ gallon more than 87 e10.

Some more detail:


This 1 MPG is in the ballpark for the published difference between the energy density (BTU/GAL, e.g.) between gasoline and a 10% (by volume) gasohol. This difference is about 3%. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density). For reference, my FJR right now using (theoretically) e10 is getting 46-47 MPG, given my pattern of normal use.

There are caveats to this experiment:

1. I believe the pattern of use of the bike (sustained highway vs. stop/shutoff, modest length runs vs. short runs) for this experiment was the same throughout. It's possible that there was more variation in this than I realize. So one could argue there is enough experimental error (there's always some) to preclude taking this 1 MPG to be highly accurate.
2. This is summer, when my "e10" gas mileage jumps up in all my vehicles. It has always been more noticeable in my Prius and bikes. It'll almost certainly go back down around late September, like it always does. This seasonal change is about 10%. I've long attributed this to seasonal changes in gas formulations and it might include an e10 in winter and e0 in summer. Or it could be other additives, etc. Who knows?
3. You really do not know what you're putting in your tank. You take it on faith that if the pump says it contains 10% ethanol, it at least has some in it. And if it says ethanol-free, this is the ONLY difference between that fuel and the e10 one buys at the same station.
4. The ethanol-free stuff was rated 91 octane. I know from past experience that running a higher-than required octane in a given engine can actually reduce gas mileage. This, of course, further complicates trying to measure the effect of ethanol on mileage.
5. Filling the tank to the same level every time is a challenge on a FJR. And it happens that the pump available to me with ethanol-free gas is sitting in a spot that is far from level pavement. I did this experiment over several tanks to mitigate this effect, but still.

I'll retry this in a few months, when we're back on the other-season blend, to see what I see.
 
Nebraska is a state that promotes ethanol use in gasoline. It and one or two other mid-western states have a grade of gasoline that is quite a bit cheaper than the regular ethanol/gasoline mixture. It uses more ethanol and is a subsidized product. I think that Super Ethanol is a blend of higher octane gasoline with slightly more ethanol.

As others have said, you can safely run the lowest available octane rating at any pump you see. Here in Colorado, we've got 85-octane and it's safe to run in the NT or any other vehicle that can run on regular. The octane level has been lowered because we're at a higher altitude. Octane is a measurement of anti-knock characteristics and an engine can't compress a mixture that starts with less air (like we have here above 4,000' elevation) enough to cause premature ignition even if it would do so with 85-octane at sea level.
 
5. Filling the tank to the same level every time is a challenge on a FJR.
It is a bit of a PITA, but yes, you can. You park the bike on level ground on the side stand. Put the gas nozzle in the larger hole in that metal well under the gas cap. Let the pump run until it shuts off. Then manually fill until the gas reaches the bottom of the well. Doing that, I bet that you will have less that 0.1 gallon difference between full tank to full tank.
 
It is a bit of a PITA, but yes, you can. You park the bike on level ground on the side stand. Put the gas nozzle in the larger hole in that metal well under the gas cap. Let the pump run until it shuts off. Then manually fill until the gas reaches the bottom of the well. Doing that, I bet that you will have less that 0.1 gallon difference between full tank to full tank.

It's that "level" thing that was impossible with the location of the particular pump I had to use for ethanol-free. But even with the FJR level I find I can fill to the bottom of the well, then add some more and still be at the bottom of the well, and repeat like 4 times with the gas seemingly disappearing somewhere into the tank.
 
Alcohol was created to mix with Coke and 7-Up. Not gasoline.

It all depends on what kind of Alcohol...stove fuel probably does not mix well with Coke and 7-Up, at least based on what I learned mixing it with Jim Beam and Starbuck's instant coffee.
 
Two years ago here in Okieland, the price difference between pure gas and 10% ethanol gas was only 6 or 7 cents per gallon. I considered that choice as being a no-brainer since pure gas is plentiful here. But something happened about a year ago and the price difference shot up dramatically. I read about the cause of this increase in the paper when it happened but never really understood the reasoning behind it. Now it's around 35 cents per gallon difference. I'm still buying pure gas for everything I own, but it sure has me rethinking my decision to do so.
 
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