Winter Log

Coyote Chris

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(Mellow, move to maintenance if you think it proper) I have decided to take some advice here and try and ride my NT all winter. I was able to ride today and two days ago (see pic).
I am keeping a log of how many days I can ride, the temps, etc and how long I ride. Today, for instance, it was 45 degrees and I rode to a store and back
for a total of 20 miles and 30 minutes. When I got home, I let the bike idle till the fan came on and went off once and shut her down.
The bike has new oil in her for the winter but I suspect the oil isnt warming up to where it can purge itself of water properly. I have real gasoline in her and
it is stabilized. Anyone think I should try and ride longer or has anyone put an oil temp gage on their NT?
 

Warren

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I would think in 20 miles the NT would be warm enough to evaporate any moisture.
 

Phil Tarman

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Chris, I'll second Warren's statement. My guess is that my oil may not get that hot in the 1.1 mile I ride to work, but even on cold mornings, the water temperature is coming up pretty rapdily when I get there.
 

mikesim

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Yup! I concur. A twenty minute ride is more than adequate to heat the oil and purge any moisture present. Keep in mind that any bike that is ridden even semi-frequently (once a week) will not accumulate that much moisture in the oil and any moisture that does occur will easily be handled by the oil additives. In Phil's case, where his trip is only 1.1 miles, the engine doesn't warm sufficiently to purge the moisture however Phil takes frequent periodic rides which accomplishes that task.

I wouldn't dwell on this if I were you, just ride it and enjoy!

Mike
 
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Coyote Chris

Coyote Chris

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When I changed my oil a few weeks ago, it was after a 20 mile ride on a cool day. Yes, the water temp came up and I let the bike idle till the fan came on once....but the oil didnt seem very warm when I took it out.
Now I wish I would have put my thermometer in that oil. I seem to remember from the last century that fire trucks would idle back at the station after a run till the oil temp reached 190 degrees, but I wouldnt swear that was the number.
 
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Coyote Chris

Coyote Chris

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Chris, I'll second Warren's statement. My guess is that my oil may not get that hot in the 1.1 mile I ride to work, but even on cold mornings, the water temperature is coming up pretty rapdily when I get there.
From now on, I am going to take my oil's temp. In fact, I think I can insert my special thermometer right into the oil dip stick hole.
Deep into the last century, there was a guy by the name of Joe Minton who was a tech ed for Rider Magazine. He told it like it was. One issue he did an article on oil temps in UJMs. Many ran too hot and cooked their oil. So I put on on my Yamaha XV920 RH, which was air cooled also but a twin. It was very interesting to watch that gage. The only time it really got super hot was riding up Wyoming mountain passes at a good clip on a warm day. Anyway, on that bike, the oil didnt heat up very fast.

So here is what I am going to do...next ride, I am going to do a 20 mile 30 minute ride and record the air temp. Then I will put the bike on its center stand and turn it off after the fan comes on once. Then I will take the oil temp though the dip stick hole with my calibrated thermometer.
The truth is out there! My hypothisis is that the temp of the oil will vary remarkably with the air temp. Not only will the oil start out being warmer, that cold air on the sump will act as some sort of oil cooler.
 
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Chris, check your private mail, I just sent you a message there,

or call me if you want to.
Eldon 503-981-64333
 
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Coyote Chris

Coyote Chris

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OK! First data point! The sun came out late in the day in Spokane. Air Temp, 48 degrees. I Rode 21.5 miles in 30 minutes. (Bike took 6 minutes to get the coolant temp gage to normal.) Rode back and put the bike on its center stand in the garage and let it idle 3 minutes 11 sec till the fan came on...fan goes off at 3 min 30 seconds. I turned off the engine, took out the dip stick, and Put in the temp gage and after 4 minutes the temp of the oil had stabilized at 184 degrees. Normally, this thermometer is accuracte to about plus or minus 2 degrees. So, the question now is, "Is 184 degrees warm enough to remove the water accrued during the ride? IIRC after 40 years out of aircraft mechanics school, I seem to think there is a gallon of water produced for every gallon of gas burned. Most of course goes out the exaust pipes and in modern engines, there is very very little blowby to put water into the crank case. I dont see a problem here. Maybe I will get a better, warmer day and another data point.

good reference...
http://www.reiffpreheat.com/Article-Visser3.htm
The heat is on: Our experts agree on the best oil temperature

Ben Visser

12/10/2004

A few issues back, my good friend Paul McBride was asked what was the best oil temperature for an aircraft engine (Just what is normal? Oct. 15 issue). Since then, I have received a few questions about the same subject, but from the lubricant perspective.

Although I hate to admit it in public, Paul was right. The best oil temperature for most opposed, certified aircraft engines is about 180?F under normal cruise conditions. (Higher oil temperatures can be expected during climb-out.)

This is based on several pieces of data. First, the oil throughout the engine is at various instantaneous temperatures. Usually the hottest oil in the engine is the oil coming off the underside of the piston.

We have determined that on most non-turbocharged engines, this instantaneous oil temperature is usually about 50? hotter than the temperature of the oil going into the engine. If we add the 50? to an engine oil temperature of only 160?, we see that the oil never gets over the 212? mark, which is the boiling point of water. By running at 180? during cruise, the oil should be hot enough to boil off the normal condensation in a one-hour flight.

On the high end, the maximum preferred oil temperature is around 200?. This guideline is based on data that show the instantaneous temperature of the oil coming off the pistons for many turbocharged piston engines is about 75? above the temperature of the oil going into the engine. This means that if you are running an oil temperature of 240? during cruise, the oil is actually reaching 315? at some point in the engine. This is OK for a short time during climb-out, but if your engine operates for extended periods at this temperature, it can lead to coking and an increased level of deposits in your engine.

Remember that these are just guidelines and there are some exceptions. For example, if you have an aircraft that does not have a CHT or EGT gauge, the oil temperature is the only temperature indication that you have. Say that your engine oil temperature normally runs at 160? under cruise conditions on an 80? day. If it suddenly starts to run at 180? under the same conditions with no other change being made to the aircraft, this could be an indication of one or more cylinders running too hot or some other problem. You should check to make sure that your oil temperature is not only at the proper level, but also that it is consistent under the same conditions.

A final point is one that Paul also noted, and that is oil temperature gauge calibration. Many of the airplanes flying today have gauges that have not been checked in 20 or 30 years. In addition, many of the gauges just have a green band from around 100? to 240?. I would recommend that you remove your oil temp sensor and place it in a container of oil or water. Place the container on a hot plate with a good referenced thermometer in the liquid to check the temperature. Now heat the container up to 180?. When the temperature in the container stabilizes, check the gauge. I also recommend that you paint a small mark on the face of your gauge so that you can easily see where your oil temp is relative to your 180? mark. Now you can start worrying with confidence about how to get your oil temp up to 180? in the winter and/or down to 180? in the summer.



Ben Visser is an aviation fuels and lubricants expert who spent 33 years with Shell Oil. He has been a private pilot since 1985. You can contact him at Visser@GeneralAviationNews.com.
 
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I think your collecting interesting data. I think we have milder winters here in the great plains, but still see temps that cause many to put away their motorcycles away for 3-4 months around here. I try to commute to work as long as the roads don't have ice or too much sand/salt after a snow. We have already had mornings where the temperature was below freezing when i left for work. Like Phil, I have a short commute less than 5 miles. I also live in a town where I can get to most places I want in less than 10 miles. So winter riding here means lots of short trips. I didn't have any trouble at all with the NT last winter. Since it is usually much nicer after work, I just find an excuse to take a longer ride after work to make sure the oil gets up to a good temp.

I also use Rotella T6 synthetic. This oil is known for being very robust and flows well in cold temperatures. Between making sure I get at least one or two longer trips in per week, and the synthetic oil, I just don't worry about the oil on the NT. If I can get traction and am comfortable I ride. I think the NT is easy on oil and as long as you follow Honda's maintenance schedule and use a good oil, you should never have to deal with any oil related issues. I will be changing my oil in the next month or two and plan on sending the oil in to Blackstone lab for a used oil analysis (UOA). I did this on previous cars and always liked the real world analysis of my car/oci/driving habits. As long as your collectng all this data you might want to add a UOA as another datapoint. You will then have good data for the environmental and riding conditions as well as the condition of the oil after going through it.
 
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Coyote Chris

Coyote Chris

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Hey Man, great to see you at the rally. I probably wont get a UOA as it might scare me!:)
Please post your results.
I am thinking about a more modern (quicker) temperature probe for future warm and cold weather tests.
One thing I remember from skool is that the oil temp does vary as it travels around the various engine parts and passages.....
IMHO, with the quality of oils we have today, we have little to worry about. In the earlier parts of this century (circa 2002-2004) there were sludge issues
in some cars as owners actually believed advertising types that regular oil could go 7,500 miles and more in certain specific cars. But oils are so good now,
some can actually go 7,500 miles. I chose to change mine more often cause it gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling....
 
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